Liberty Dollars may be subject to seizure

Now that they are contraband, they'll become rare and the chinese will forge them and import them into the country and the feds will have a real good time.

Will it be illegal to own a forged one?

 

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So what's stopping the Feds from enforcing the law with regard to Chinese fakes?

 

He makes some very convincing fantasy pieces, but he doesn't try to pass them off as the 'real deal'. But what if someone tried to pass of one of his coins as a genuine US issue?

 

Very true...or to "augment" US currency.

 

Just The Facts!!

Thank you for posting the appropriate provisions of the the Federal Criminal Code pertaining to acceptable "real money" (i.e. Fiat currency).

I believe that one will find the heretofore referenced code to be intentionally written in vague ambiguous terms which will allow the confiscation, fine levying, and imprisonment of anyone attempting an exchange of payment without use of legislated "money". It can be also argued that an official monetary fiat item exchanged at a greater value than that designated on face, could be confiscated as counterfeit, and appropriately legislated fines/penalties levied.

If one literally accepts the provisions written in the presented code, it could be argued that if a woman bakes a pan of brownies, and presents same to a neighbor as a token of appreciation (payment) for automobile maintenance efforts, she would be subject to criminal fines/penalties. This can be argued as ludicrous, but seemingly practical as the government actions in efforts pertaining to the Liberty and Ron Paul "dollars".

If one reviews past actions by government when the Fiat currency was threatened, they should objectively realize that there isn't a safe alternative if the official currency is deemed threatened by "authorities".

Just my humble learned opinion, of which I'll defer to any findings of contrary judicial precedence.

:bow:

 

That's rich. I can wind up in the pokey for passing brownies? And they weren't even the Alice B Toklas variety.......

 

So would this apply to Wooden Nickels issued by companies, communities, etc on almost a weekly basis everywhere in the US?

 

Not true.
It is not illegal to hold a counterfiet.
It is illegal to pass a counterfiet.
I turned a counterfiet bill in one time... Then decided I might like to keep it, and they said fine, just don't spend it.

 

lol when i first saw this i started thinking seated liberty dollar! ya just mean norfed - it took a lil bit.

 

oh boyy...........

 

Just tell the feds they are Chinese counterfeits and they will get completely ignored.

 

Thanks for the clarification Hontanai. It really is Orwellian isn't it? I mean, they pass law so ambiguous so that almost any action COULD fall within its bounds of illegality, then selectively prosecute. I have read where this is the favorite action of dictators, to pass so many laws that everyone is breaking a law every day, and then selectively prosecute those you wish to shut up, all of the while being able to claim that the person is legitimately a law breaker, and be able to show the world the law he broke.

Pretty scary. Like I said, I never liked the idea of a Liberty Dollar, but the way this prosecution has gone I like the prosecution a lot less than the Liberty Dollar idea.

Chris

P.S. Again, all of the while cargo containers of fake dvd, guns, apple computers, and counterfeit coins come into our country every single day. You would simply think we have other priorities. It kind of makes you think why they are pursuing this American so strongly while leaving foreign smugglers alone.

 

From 1934 to 1960, the Treasury Department considered showing coins and currency in films to be counterfeiting and banned film companies from using real money in films.

The Treasury Dept did make an exception for films showing Treasury agents hunting counterfeiters.

 

Oh my, look for some good deals on ebay. Just kidding but the price should be lowered just a tad anyways. They're nice but man they charge an arm and a leg for those suckers. Especially the one with the 9mm on them.

Personally I think the DA in the case released that info b/c they know that some of the people selling them used to barter with them. just my 2 cnts!

 

And now I have a sudden urge to get a Liberty Dollar

 

Von Nothaus was asking for trouble with his Liberty Dollars; I do not feel bad for him. There are so many types of bullion out there that are 1000X more honest than the Liberty Dollar in buy/sell spreads. 90% silver and eagles remain the best ways to buy silver.

I saw the Liberty Dollar being demoed at the Free State "Porcupine Festival" in New Hampshire years ago; it struck me as amateurish and overpriced. I had a little demonstration myself of the US eagle coins, and one crook distracted me and then swiped a 1/2oz. gold eagle. By the time I had realized what had happened it was too late. People reap what they sow.

 

I suggest you wait awhile b/c the prices are sure to come down. Also there's a couple of sellers on the bay who were bartering, oh let me correct myself. There are a couple of sellers on ebay who were defending bartering with the Norfed dollars and some who were in the area and are known business associates of Bernard Von Nothaus. My feeling is the DA can't touch them b/c there's no evidence other than the lists that they found when they raided the house and business of Von Nothaus. Trust me on this tho'. Already businesses are running away from their affiliations with the subject individual. My limited police jargon.

If we keep talking about this situation, the Norfeds, Liberty and Freedom dollars will go down in price. :thumb: Reason being that most people don't want them around. :yes:I'll take some tho'!!

 

Isn't this "Much Ado About Nothing"?

Afterall, the whole reason Bernard von Nothaus was found guilty was because he was creating coins and bills intended to REPLACE US currency. Where are all the Gresham's Law defenders? ..."bad money drives out good"?

The Liberty dollar (good money) is pushed out of the marketplace by cheap US fiat currency (bad money)...so it CAN'T replace US currency...by definition.

I haven't seen any in circulation. (...or am I missing something here?) :scratch:

 

Very true sir, but there is a caveat to Gresham's law, (or at elast there should be), that both types of money have to be equally acceptable to the population. Gresham's law cannot operate when Item A is accepted as money, and Item B is not. If B is the current currency, but the population starts to reuse to accept it, then Item A very well can displace it. This has happened in history often, in fact it is a hallmark of a regime change. Often governments would debase their currency to the point of insolvency, and this helps fuel a revolution. The new regime coins good quality coinage since one of their points of the revolution was coinage quality. Then of course it always proceeds to debase the coinage anew.

Anyway, this can be seen starkly in Chinese coinage, like a clock. The danger that maybe the Feds see is IF the populace stops accepting US currency as acceptable currency. In that light, their prosecution makes all of the sense in the world.

Just a thought.

Chris