This has got to be one of the most unpleasant things, both for dealers and collectors/investors. You buy a coin, either for collection purposes or investment. You examine it, or run it through a grading service quickly while the return privalege is still active. Then you return the coin for a refund. Plus there are grey areas of "rights" where the purchase agreement is a little hazy. I do not like to keep coins that are going to be losers for me in the long run. But I will if the coin was from someone I do significant business with and don't want to antagonize him/her. I bought a bunch of coins from a local coin club member who sold them as MS or AUs without problems. Most of the coins got bad or details grades. What should I do? I am not in a hurry to bother him about it, but it would be helpful if he knew that he was buying problem coins without knowing it, so that his sources are treated more skeptically than currently.
Well, to me, a buyer is buying the coin as he sees it, without return privileges if the TPG disagrees. The seller cannot control what the TPG will say. If you buy it with the agreement to send it to a TPG that is different. The reason this has to be is some people like to play that game, buy a coin and if it doesn't come back the grade they expect return it. Well my question would be: If it came back higher would the buyer go to the seller and pay them more money? No? Why then is only a loss the dealers, but the gain is the buyers? On your specific case, I would simply let him know they came back ungradable and help him understand why. It is up to you and him to settle on the coins you purchased. Just my take man. Chris
If you bought them from a local coin club member.....did you not examine the coins before buying them?
I bought an early $5 gold coin once with a one month return privalege. I ran it through NGC on the express tier and got it back in the required time. It was body bagged, NGC did not then holder problem coins. It was called "cleaned" and "tooled". I sent it back to the man according to the contract and got an email that the return period had expired. I was furious and did my best to quell my own anger. The deal was that if I returned it he would give me $2500, if I kept it the $2750 price would stand. Since they went against the terms of the contract I threatened to report them to the ANA grievance commitee or the PNG regulator. When they checked the contract again, they decided to return my money.
Apparently not carefully enough. Sometimes we rely on the analysis and expertise of others who do their best to describe the condition of the coin(s).
About a Year and a half ago I bought a trade dollar from a local dealer and after about 6 months I sent it in to be graded and it came back counterfeit. He has always been honest with me and has never done anything that was even slightly dishonest. (That I have seen.) I blamed myself for not looking at it closer. I just consider it a lesson learned. Now I also look a little closer before I buy and have a nice example of what to look at before buying. Just my $125 worth... I mean my 2 cents worth.
Return the coins. But beyond that you should stop buying raw coins period. I agree, he needs to be informed that he should stop buying raw coins too.
Typically the seller will state precisely what his return policy is. If you buy the coin then you are obligated to adhere to that return policy. Personally, my advice for people has always been to never buy coins from anyone who does not offer a "no questions asked" return policy.
And he probably wasn't being dishonest this time either. In all likelihood he also didn't know the coin was counterfeit. But neither does that absolve him from responsibility for selling the fake. Any seller, whether a private individual or a coin dealer, has to by law accept returns of counterfeits - with no time limit whatsoever.
Owle, in the case of the $5 you are right since you had made prior agreement concerning the return. My only point sir was when prior agreement has not been made. Wooleytree, as Doug points out there never is a time limit for a fake. This is a cost to the dealer that they can never avoid. I would return it to him tomorrow. This is why you buy coins for more from a dealer rather than some seller in Shangai on Ebay. Chris
Thanks for the replies to this query. The counterfeits can be very tricky to identify as well as the problem coins. But the admonition to never buy raw coins if you get stuck should be qualified. I rarely get snookered by raw gold coins which imo are much easier to identify as problem coins, with notable exceptions. I recently bought a $2.50 Liberty that NGC identified as fake. The show dealer gave me my money back no problem. Should he also be responsible for certifying fee? Last year I bought a $20 Liberty from Apmex that was certified by PCI MS64. NGC called it a counterfeit. Apmex gave me my money plus the NGC certifying fee. In this case, that was probably equitable. Most of us are glad to suffer a minor loss, even 10% or so, rather than be stuck with a problem coin that may only be worth the metal content.
