My grandpa was weed-eating a hill and heard something clink from the cutting line hitting it. He reached down and thought he found a silver half. Instead it is a silver die use for counterfeiting coins. One each side is a mirror opposite of the coin engraved into the silver. It's a liberty seated or barber, can't remember. Anyway I do know that they used to fake dollars and halves using lead jar lids. My questions are: 1. What would (ballpark) something like that be worth? 2. Would it be legal to sell?
I have never seen anything like that so couldn't tell you a price. It probably isn't legal to own let alone sell.
I highly doubt the dies were made from silver. Most coin dies are made from die steel, especially when made to strike coins. The metal has to be harder than the material they are striking. Now if the dies were used to make cast coins I suppose the dies could be silver as long as the metal being used has a lower melting point than silver. It is worth whatever someone is willing to pay. There is a limited market for counterfeit coin dies. Almost certainly NOT. It may be a crime just to own the dies, much less sell them. You may want to be very careful who you ask these questions. The Secret Service goes way out of their way to make sure nobody except the US Mint has dies that can be used to strike (or cast) US coins. If I were you I might write an "anonymous" letter to Coin World asking these questions.
First of all yes, it is absolutely legal to own coin dies and it is of course legal to sell them. The only time this would even possibly be a problem is if it was a die for coins currently in circulation. And even then it would only be a problem if there was also evidence that you were using that die to make counterfeit coins. Possession of the die itself is no crime. I once had a chance to buy an obverse die for Morgan dollars from a ex President of the ANA, the die was nearly perfect other than a small rust spot. But the asking price was $11,000, so no I didn't buy it. But I did take pictures of it. It was later taken to a coin show and sold - all perfectly legal. There are more than a few coin dies out there in various collections. And just like the rare coins they occasionally come on the market, but they don't last long for obvious reasons. Now the question I would ask the OP is this - what makes you think this is a counterfeit die ? Based on your description it sounds more like a counterfeit coin of some sort for a die is a large chunk of metal and in no way resembles a coin. And dies do not have 2 sides.
Coinage dies can be legal to own. Dies for making COUNTERFEIT coins are not legal to own. (That doesn't keep them from being purchased by collectors though.) I agree that that it doesn't sound like he had found a die or dies, it sounds more like he has found a crude counterfeit made by squeezing a blank piece of metal between two coins.
I thought real coin dies had to be canceled before selling? Like a few 'X's hammered in. The only die I've seen outside an active mint was a Carson City, and it had the X's destroying the beauty, but certainly would prevent the forging of coins... It had some pretty nasty rust on her to! They use some pretty high carbon steel in the white. It will rust if you so much as clean the oil off it, and breath on it. I would of thought by now they would treat the surface with TiCN. The dies would last three times longer, and provide a little more protection from rust, but I guess that is another subject.
HAD to be canceled? The early mint often sold off old dies as scrap steel without cancelling them. (Few early dies survive though since the dies were not valuable at the time but the steel was. The ANS has a couple.) After the 1820's or so coinage dies pretty much disappear until 1968. Most if not all of the few that survive do have the heavy X cut into their faces. In 1968 the mint sold off a bunch of 1968 S proof dies as scrap that had been defaced using a welding torch. In 1996 they sold off some of the dies that had been used to make the Olympic commemoratives. These have the heavy X cut across them but most of the detail is still visible. All of the dies sold since then have had the entire face ground off with an abrasive grinder. Since about 1871 the mint has been required to deface all of the dated dies at the end of the year. (Typically it was worded as destroyed by fire and sledge. I would assume this meant they heated them up red hot then pulled them from the furnace and hit the coining face with a sledgehammer. Should make it pretty unusable for coinage.) The undated dies are sometimes held over and used during the following year.
That would seem logical but I am not sure I agree. As I understand it - The Hobby Act only requires replica coins to be counter struck with (COPY) and therefore is not required as a design feature of the die striking the replica coins. If counterfiet dies were illegal to own then wouldn't dies used to strike replica coins would be illegal to own?
This is my favorite part of cointalk: A "what's it worth" without a picture not in the What's it Worth forum. Classic.
You aren't dealing with the Hobby Protection Act, you are dealing with US Code Title 18 Chapter 25 sec 487 Whoever, without lawful authority, makes any die, hub, or mold, or any part thereof, either of steel or plaster, or any other substance, in likeness or similitude, as to the design or the inscription thereon, of any die, hub, or mold designated for the coining or making of any of the genuine gold, silver, nickel, bronze, copper, or other coins coined at the mints of the United States; or Whoever, without lawful authority, possesses any such die, hub, or mold, or any part thereof, or permits the same to be used for or in aid of the counterfeiting of any such coins of the United States— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than fifteen years, or both. The HPA does not require the coins to be counterstruck with COPY after they are made, if simply requires that the word COPY appear on them in the proper size and font. If you went by a strict interpretation of Sec 487 then yes, dies used to make replicas which were then marked copy afterwards would be illegal. Because until they are marked, they would be counterfeits and you would be counterfeiting. If you want to do things the safe way you would have COPY in raised lettering on your die so it is on the replicas as soon as they are struck. Sec 488 covers the same ground for dies for non-US coins.
One of my favorites is: "I have this coin. Can anybody identify it for me? I am not going to give you a diameter or the metal composition of the coin. You will just have to guess. The obverse of the coin has a man (or is it a woman?) facing left (or maybe right). There is some writing but I can't make it out because it is in another language. On the reverse there is an eagle (or maybe it's a pelican - I can't tell). It is holding something in its claws but I can't tell what it is. I don't have my camera right now but I will post photos later. I just wanted to ask if anyone could identify my coin before they see any photos of it." I always want to ask, "Why didn't you wait until you have photos to ask your question?"
The description is vague in nature and as described does not sound like what is considered a normal coin die. This sounds like something thin that can be flipped over so both sides could impart (I would assume pouring a molten metal rather than striking) a design. It also must be made from a non-ferrous metal because the poster does not mention rust. Pictures are imperative...or at minimum, a detailed description. Conder101 is right on the money so to speak, as usual.
Sounds like a Lower Elbonian Double Buzzard. Extremely rare. You should send it to PCGS for authentication grading right away.
