eBay: sometimes you just have to laugh...

As many of you know, I have begun listing coins on eBay as a test to see how well the system works. I have received great advice from the users of this forum so far, and I do appreciate it greatly. Here are my opinions so far:

40 coins listed, all sold

1 item is missing in the USPS system (currently being tracked down) even though it was mailed at the exact same time as approximately 14 other packages of similar size. There is no record of any scans in their system.

I have had 30 buyers give me positive feedback (so far) saying that the coins were shipped quickly, packaged well, and exactly as described....EXCEPT:

1 person who bought an item, paid for it, the item was shipped the next day. The buyer received the item, left positive feedback, and all was well....until they filed a chargeback with their credit card company this morning. No contact from the buyer, no coin returned in the mail, no indication that there were any problems whatsoever. I am confused by the chargeback amounts...PayPal lists two separate amounts...an amount on hold for the total of the original transaction, and a chargeback amount of $40 more than the original transaction plus shipping...so I'm a bit confused by that. Am I being scammed here?

I have 8 buyers who have yet to contact me or leave positive feedback. Online tracking says they received their coins...but no indications from them otherwise. Kinda curious how this will turn out.

All in all, I'm not sure how I feel about the entire process - it's a lot of work (relatively) compared to selling them on Craigslist. It's a lot more time as well...and I lose 12% of the gross to fees. Some items sold for more than expected, but most sold for between 50% and 75% of book (numismedia/coin prices.) I know that summertime isn't a great time to sell coins, so that may account for the lower selling prices...but then again, I realize that many of the items I listed weren't "take your breath away" kind of coins. Did anyone here check out my auctions, win anything from me, and have feedback either way? What did you think of my packaging? Here's what I did:

*Placed the coin in a stapled 2x2. Made sure to crimp down the staple ends.
*Placed the 2x2 inside a plastic hobby bag and sealed that shut to protect against accidental water damage during shipping.
*Folded the bag neatly inside multiple layers of foam padding (with an adhesive backing, so that was sealed as well) and stapled the edges of that together to keep it from coming unraveled.
*Placed the item in a padded envelope. Taped the shipping label to the front and wrapped packing tape around the entire envelope (except for the label.)

Thoughts?

 

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Fraudulent chargebacks are the main reason I've stopped using eBay. As you have tracking info you will be covered by eBays seller protection but in my opinion that's nothing more than a marketing ploy. It's the credit card company who call the shots, not eBay.

I trade coins almost exclusively with other collectors now. No cash changes hands so no fraudulent chargebacks for which PayPal charge YOU a hefty sum. Talk about adding insult to injury!

The scammers are winning, online selling will soon become a thing of the past unless action is taken, and quickly. Even with proof of delivery or signature confirmation you will still get ripped off when the crooked buyer claims the envelope was empty. It's sad, you are doing everything right, shipping the coins in a timely manner, packing them well, getting good feedback and now all your efforts are wiped out by a single blatant crook. I feel your pain having been down this road three times now. Even if you win the dispute, the wasted time and frustration makes it just too much of a gamble.

Thoughts? ............. Grab yer ankles!

 

The strange part, to me, is that the buyer has over 500 feedback...214 positives in the last month alone. Either he's a really good scammer...or I don't know. You would think that someone with this much eBay experience would at least contact you if there were some sort of problem. I'm glad at this point I chose to leave my feedback only upon the completion of the sale. Learned that from the last nightmare buyer I had.

 

Well you cannot leave negative feedback for buyers, so that's why he doesn't have any. Some buyers, probably over 25% do not bother to leave feedback, this happens a lot to me. Contact eBay, PayPal, the credit card company as fast as possible or there is a chance of you getting scammed.

 

Uh...Have you contacted the buyer for an explanation? Do it through both email and ebay's messages.

 

Even though the buyer filed a charge back with their credit card company, PayPal will hold the funds until the buyer returns the merchandise from the sale.

The credit card company can squawk all they want, but PayPal will stick to their guns.

I've had it happen several years ago, which is why I stopped selling on eBay, on a GSA Morgan. The seller won the auction with a winning bid of $540, I shipped the coin the next morning, sent the tracking info to the buyer.

2 days later I received delivery confirmation, and the same day it was delivered the buyer filed a charge back with their credit card company. PayPal held the funds until the buyer returned the coin. They also provided me with the contact information of the rep from the buyers credit card company handling the charge back, and I contacted them and told them their client must return the item in question before the funds are released back to them.

It was a headache, and one I had enough of, and I closed my eBay store as a result.

Now I only buy from dealers I know on eBay.

And I sell on local craigslist.com. No fees, no headaches, and cash only transactions.

 

So, there is a happy ending to this story, apparently:

I heard back from my buyer. Here's his story:

PayPal decided to overcharge this buyer for a few items. This explains the crazy amount PayPal was showing me. He tried to contact them to explain, but they misunderstood what he was telling them...so all he's doing is trying to get charged the correct amount. Completely happy with the coin and my service.

As usual, I always try to keep a "wait and see" attitude...but it's good to hear that I'm not dealing with one of those unreasonable weirdos that always seem to pop up and nothing you can do makes them happy. I'm glad the buyer contacted me back - although it would have been better for my peace of mind had he contacted me first. Of course, he was probably assuming that PayPal would do what he asked them and there would be no need...

I, too, prefer craigslist. Once it's done, it's done. I've only had two major issues with Craigslist:

*The rise in PM prices has created a ton of speculators who are ONLY interested in buying your coins if they are silver, and ONLY interested in them if they can get them for a steal of a price. Sorting through these people is extremely tiresome...I recently listed some circulated walking liberty halves for $14 each - and had people try to undercut me by hundreds of dollars off my asking price. Of course, I had ten people within an hour say they'd take them...but I just had to laugh at the lowball offers.

*I can't stand when someone says they'll take something...or they're really, really interested....and then never contacts you back. For whatever reason, it doesn't matter, you should at least communicate whether you've changed your mind or not.

 

Excellent news!

I've thought about using Craigslist but I'm wondering if I really want to fend off dozens of lowballers trying to pick up coins at face value or even worse having them on my doorstep. I have security courtesy of the 2nd Amendment, i.e. a gun in every room with enough firepower to stop a herd of charging Rhinos but cleaning up the blood and brains is a real pain.

How do you CL traders avoid the crazies - do you use email only and meet them outside of Walmart?

 

:thumb: Yep!

 

I have only sold a couple times on ebay and I never had a problem. I don't understand this chargeback system as I have never really had problems recieving my items too. I have had a couple items that I was unhappy with but usually just small purchases and I chalked it up as a lesson learned.

I have also sold on craigslist twice. Maybe I'm just lucky, but again I haven't had any problems. I sold to the first buyers who called and didn't recieve any lowball offers. I priced them right at spot and I wouldn't have taken any less for them. The buyers seemed just as concerned as I was about the safety of the transaction which is what I look for in a cash transaction. I always meet in a public place, I have heard some people arranging to meet at a bank or possibly a police station. Either of those 2 places seem like a good place to meet especially for a large transaction.

I hope all goes well with these and future sells for everyone. It can be frustrating and stressfull when selling no matter what option you choose. Just use common sense and everything should go smoothly.

 

Whenever I meet someone for a sale, I always do it in a strip mall, we meet outside the Starbucks, I've gotten to meet some cool people and hear some great stories

 

Some people........

http://www.1011now.com/home/headlin...empting_to_Purchase_Gold_Coins_120267324.html

 

What's that supposed to mean? Meeting someone at a gas station and having the transaction in a car is hardly using common sense, especially if your a senior citizen. I have seen this story a couple times and this is the exception not the rule.

 

I was thinking more about the loser trying to pass off chocolate coins rather than the poor guy who got maced. What's it supposed to mean? There are scary people about, what did you think I meant?

 

Well, I am always adamant about where I meet people. Especially in my hometown of St. Louis - if the total of the sale is over a certain amount, I try to meet them in a bank lobby or somewhere with a posted security guard. But then, I'm smart enough to make those kinds of decisions. And the chocolate in those candy coins was always awful...not only are they not collectible, they're not delicious. Double blah.

 

I meet the interested party in any public location. Plus I have a rabid pitbull named Shelly(LOL j/k).

 

It's simple really.

You buy something using a credit card.

You call your credit card company, and file a charge back complaint against the business you used the card in. The credit card company reverses the payment.

You have the merchandise, the money back on your credit card, and the business is out everything.

 

...... and PayPal charges you $30 for the reversal.

 

EBay has more than its fair share of reasons to avoid it, imo...including, but not limited to:

1) "Tilted" playing field. The only way a fair exchange of ANYTHING is EVER going to occur is if both parties are uncoerced, unencumbered, and mutually agreeable. By definition, E-Bay makes this impossible. They place the encumbrance of feedback on the seller, but the buyer has no such concern. A buyer may leave any sort of feedback (s)he wishes for the seller, but the seller is unable to leave anything but positive feedback for the buyer.

The playing field is not level.

2) A market can only be truly reflective of item value...and thus, a truly objective opportunity for both seller and buyer...if the market does not artificially limit or enhance value. E-Bay does not meet this standard.

E-Bay's fees are frequently "final value" based...that is to say, the fee is based upon the final sales price of the item. While this mirror's "real life" auctions, there are significant differences that make this an artificial limit on item price and availability.

In "real life" auctions, the value of the item dictates, at least in part, the services provided by the auction company, and their overhead. Higher priced items require different marketing, more aggressive security, or more expensive accommodations and amenities for potential buyers. In short, it is more expensive for an auction house to sell a high priced item than a low priced one.

Online, however, E-Bay's services are identical. The software, bandwidth, and hardware necessary to list a $1 item are identical to that necessary to list a $10,000 item. Only services like escrow or enhanced marketing differ, and these can be (and have been) commoditized in and of themselves.

The result, then, is that prices are held artificially low by sellers, to avoid high fees, and non-commoditized services, like shipping, become artificially inflated. Ebay, then, is no longer truly reflective of market value of an item, and the onus to "work around" this disparity falls on the seller.

3) E-Bay/PayPal's data integrity must now be called into question. If it is possible for one non-existant item to be sold, and the buyer charged for the sale, then it is possible for ANY non-existant item to be sold, multiple copies of the SAME item to be sold, or completely random charges to be placed.

Further, E-Bay's inability or unwillingness to even acknowledge this issue leaves the COMPANY'S integrity open to question as well.

==============

The market is not equally open to both buyer and seller, the market is not truly reflective of item values, and the integrity of the market data is questionable at best.

What other reasons do you need?

Pretty much, yeah.

I've dealt with CL for everything from announcing yardsales, to selling random "clean out the garage" stuff, to finding models for photo shoots, to buying and selling coins, to tracking down the owner of the contents of a storage shed.

By and large, I've had exceptionally good luck with CL by following one fairly simple principle:

Don't
Be
An
Idiot



As an example...when I'm soliciting models for photography work, I'm frequently looking for female models willing to work TFP. (Time for Prints) In the modeling world, this sort of thing can often be translated to "Creepy fat old married dude wants to take sexy pictures of young hotties without paying."

This kinda makes it difficult to get legitimate shoots set up. :too-funny:

Some of the things I've found that make it clear I'm NOT that "creepy fat old married dude" (I'm only middle aged) are things like:

I insist that the model bring an escort of her choice. I WILL NOT shoot a model without an escort, EVEN models I've worked with multiple times.

I insist, as well, that I will have an escort. if a model's not willing to have my assistant there as part of the shoot, then I won't shoot her. Period. Further more, at LEAST the first time I work with a model, my escort/assistant will be my wife.

At a MINIMUM, the first 3 times I work with a model, we'll shoot outside, in a public place, like a park, greenway, or the like.

Ok..I know...this isn't a modeling or photography forum. My point here, however, is that the situation above has an extremely high potential creep-factor, and yet there are still ways to work around it.

Just use common sense. Highly visible public places to meet, have a separate pre-paid cheap phone, take along a friend, etc. Oh...and don't be a fat old creep.

Add some canine security. They not only enhance your safety level, but they also leave floors spotless! :too-funny:

 

I particularly thought you nailed it on the head: Don't Be An Idiot.

Craigslist is exactly as dangerous as you let it be. I've used CL to sell coins for a few years now in arguably one of the most dangerous cities this country has to offer. I've never had an incident worse than someone standing me up. Yes, I do get emails from crazies, spammers, etc. You know what? I DON'T REPLY TO THEM. It's that simple. If I get a bad feeling about them, I sell my coins to someone else or just keep the coins.

Of course, a drawback is that it is a smaller market. eBay has many, many more people that may want to purchase what I have listed. So that is why I listed the 40 coins...to see how it went.