Coin collections, storage, and theft

How do most of you deal with your collections security? Obviously a bank box for expensive slabs, gold, etc. - but what about all the rolls, mint/proof sets, and average coinage where a bank box isn't feasible?

 

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I live in a condo, so installing a safe in the floor isnt possible. But if I could, I would.

 

Secrecy works pretty well, don't tell anyone but your close friends and close family.

 

#1
The way you can store your coins securely is by not informing anyone that you have the coins in the first place. If the bad people are looking for a place to rob & they don't kow you have coins, then they will not target your house.

#2
Hide the stash where you (yourself) would not look for it. [Under a pile of newspapers or inside a non-working toilet.

#3
Did anyone hear about the home invasion that happened yesterday in North Branford Connecticut? Five guys with guns tied up the family & waited for the father to come home to open the vault.

 

Recently went through some of this myself. Here's what I learned.

First, check with your homeowners/renters insurance, to be CERTAIN of what's covered and what isn't, and what steps you must take to be compliant with your policy's requirements. A great many policies will NOT cover what you might expect, but several companies will offer riders and additional coverage in varying degrees, at various costs. The bottom line is to be informed.

Consider also WHY you have certain items/coins/metals. Just as an example, if you have some significant amount of gold because you think the SHTF moment is coming soon, are you sure you want to put it in a bank that might close in such a scenario? Or, as another example, is the value of the item tied to some sort of family history, or does it have value "on the market" to a potential thief?

Also, if you're storing offsite, become familiar with the rules, regulations, fees, etc for accessing your items. Can you get to them at such and such hours? For example, are you likely to wish to make a deal or trade at weekend coin shows, when the bank isn't open? If fees aren't paid, are you restricted, are your items held and then auctioned, etc?

Next, if you choose to store at home, do THOROUGH research, and invest in a "real" safe.

Look through YouTube for the various safe "cracking" videos. One in particular, "Security on Sale" comes to mind. Then google "how to open a safe" and "braking into a safe" and such things. Read, read, read.

What you'll find is that a great many brands/models/styles of safes are simply large neon signs that say "Hello Mr. Thief. My valuables are over here!" and offer 30 seconds or less of "resistance" to any sort of aggressive attack.

Be prepared to spend upwards of $1000 on a safe that is truly resistant to an aggressive thief, and be prepared also to do (or hire done) the work necessary to secure it to the building itself.

Finally, consider also what other "security features" you have or can have in place. Dogs, firearms, home alarm, etc.

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Remember...ALL security (this goes for your data too!) boils down to a very simple equation:

Thief's value VS. Item value

If the value of the thief's time, effort, and risk is HIGHER than the value of your item, (s)he will move on to the next target. If not, you're going to get robbed/hacked. That simple.

 

I keep my coins in a gunsafe bolted to the wall; they're large and a lot cheaper. I keep my most precious coins in a safe inside my gunsafe

 

My coins are hidden in a secret place. No one will dare to look there. LOL it may even not be where im talking about who knowS? alls im saying is they are hidden.

 

And here is an example of the point I was making above. You're right...they're frequently a lot cheaper. Trouble is, they're often WORTH the cheaper price.

Consider the following:

A sawzall with a fire & rescue blade can cut a CAR in half in less than 90 seconds. How long do you think it'll take a couple of thieves to make the SINGLE cut in your wall necessary to tip over your gun safe?

From there, let's give them a full minute to find a fulcrum suitable enough to lever the safe over on its back. A footstool, dining room chair, dresser drawer, old television, cedar chest, any number of items might do the trick. Ok...we're up to 2:30 now.

There exists at least one "cheaper" gunsafe on the market that can be broken open in less than 2 minutes with a couple of crowbars.

Clearly your "safe in a safe" can be lifted...else you wouldn't have gotten it in there. So, we'll just haul it out to the getaway vehicle, and open it later at our leisure...unless it's a brand notorious for weak locking mechanisms, which might well be openable in < 10 seconds.

So...we're STILL less than 5 minutes here. 5 minutes, with tools commonly available for < $100 total from any nearby hardware shop, and me and my buddy are in and out of your house before the neighbors are even sure the cops SHOULD be called.

Don't believe me? here's a gun safe being pried open in < 2:00:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M

And a sawzall cutting a car in half in 1:13.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI77IJvwQQ4

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Please understand, cookiemonster12, this isn't meant as an attack at you at all. Obviously, I have NO IDEA what brand of safe you own (nor should you say, obviously), nor how it's mounted, nor where, nor what other security you may have in place, etc. Clearly, I can't begin to make an assessment of your particular collection's security.

All I mean to point out is this:

The mere fact a gun safe is "bigger", or a safe is "bolted to the wall", or what have you, does not a "secure" system make. Security of your home, belongings, and person are, like everything else, a function of research, and the wisest collector is advised to be aware of what his/her own system is, or isn't, capable of.

While you may not always get what you pay for, you will never get what you don't pay for.

 

Bottom line...there is risk in every storage option. Houses get robbed every day, but so do banks. Make smart decisions. Thats the best you can hope for.
Guy

 

I have a question myself.....

Can you insure your collection??

 

Can it be done? Yes.

Will any individual policy, insurer, etc, cover any particular coin or collection? That's a case by case basis.

There have been various relationships between the ANA and insurance underwriters for just this purpose, though my understanding is that they have met with poor success.

To the best of my knowledge, http://www.hwint.com/usa/hughwood/ana/index.html is the most current word on the matter, but that may be WAY off base. If anyone has more current/correct information about insurance offerings via ANA membership, by all means, share.

 

Have you ever watched the torture test videos of a Liberty gun safe? They put money in it and told these guys if they could break into it, they could have the money. Five guys beating and prying on it didn't do the trick. So they dropped it from a second or third story building. Still didn't open. They drug it, shot it and in the end plant explosives on the door and it still didn't open.

I think they're about top of the line to where you can't do much better. The highest end ones are 7 gauge steel with 1/4" plate steel in the door. 26 one and a half inch bolts in the door, 4 inches thick and can withstand 1200 degrees for 2.5 hours. Lifetime, transferable warranty. If somebody tries to break into one or you have a fire, they will repair or replace for free. These will run you 4 to 5 grand.

The next series down is still pretty good. 90 min. fire rating , 3 inches thick, less bolts but falls in the 3 grand range. The problem is I don't know what you have to do if you need to move one again. Not real experienced in moving 1300 lb objects. That isn't something a couple guys are going to carry up some steps and walk out with. Or even get in a truck if it was sitting outside.

I'd say at minimum, don't advertise and keep things well hidden is half the battle. If you have a 'real' safe, that is a plus. I plan on getting a Liberty in the near future.

Just like to add that there are risks in all options involved. Nothing is perfect. I've found the less people you get involved in things, the better off you usually are.

 

Of course, but its expensive. Cheapest is through ANA but that is still 1% of value a year, (it used to be at least).

With home invasions and the like, I am thinking of putting more into a SDB. Nothing is perfect, but most people would not want to have to take you to the bank to get your stuff. I am thinking of just keeping misc junk and books at home and valuables in SDB.

 

Still have the three boxes, each in a diferent branch of my Credit Union. Stuff at the house would be let go as bait if needed.

 

How about a home alarm system? Seems like that would be beneficial.

 

I have, and was impressed. There ARE some folks asserting the videos were faked n some way, but I've never seen anyone provide proof of this.

I agree. As I said above...

Security is, quite simply, about value. The thief places a value on his liberty...staying out of jail. He places a value on his time...he can pick X pockets in 60 minutes (or whatever), or rob your coin collection. He places a second value on his time...the more he spends, the larger the risk of getting caught. He places a value on the goods he steals...what he can sell or trade them for. He places a value on his effort. He places a value on whatever tools he uses.

He makes, then, a simple assessment...just like any of the rest of us do, really. High risk, lots of time/effort needed, vs a small stash of silver? It's safe. Low risk and effort vs a large stash? You're toast. When A > B, you win. When it isn't, you lose. Plain and simple.

Fact is, there's not a lot most of us can do to change very many of those variables. The thief has a certain fear (or lack of it) of going to jail...we can't change that. His equipment cost him a certain amount...again, we can't change that.

What we CAN do is make it, to be blunt, is make ourselves a less attractive option than somebody else. We can do that by increasing the risk and cost, in time and energy.

Make it take longer.
Make it require more tools.
Make it require more people.
Make it require more noise. (Attention is the enemy of all thieves)
Make it take more effort.

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Personally, I'm something of a fan of well installed canine security systems, myself. They tend to make LOTS of noise, and increase the risk factor quite a bit.

 

The best safe is one with locking lugs on the top, bottom and opening side of the door and with hinges mounted on the interior. The best place for a safe is in the side of a closet, surrounded on three sides by wall, with the opening toward the back wall and bolted through the back and bottom to studs and joists. This makes it almost impossible to tip over or get leverage to pry the door. A thief would have to tear the house apart to get it out to where he could work on it. If he tried to torch it open he'd burn the house down before he have success. Also the safe should have a drain hole to allow water to escape because one way most safes can be opened is by drilling a hole in the top or upper door, inserting a bit of C-4 and blowing it open; the water spreads the force equally through the safe, air won't do that.

 

Well put. I agree. Sadly, it seems the primary threat is family members. It also seems most of the problems happen when somebody just stores stuff in an unlocked chest or box in the closet or under the bed. Then they're surprised when they come back and it's all gone. Really all you can do is make access as hard as possible, keep quiet and hope to be left alone.

We do have a dog, keep things locked up and a firearm ready to go on every level of the house. They might not have much next door but I guarantee they're an easier target.

 

Good stuff, David. Thanks for all that info!

Indeed. In that regard, all you can do, really, is raise the kids right, and hope for the best.

Here's 20% of my CSS

 

What about fire protection for coins in plastic cases such as NGC or PCGS graded coins? Most safes are rated to protect paper documents with temps getting up to 350 degrees inside the safe. I assume the plastic cases will melt at that temp. I know one can by media safes that would protect them but the cost is prohibitive.