Is this a light counterstrike? There is a strike through near the face that looks like it was struck through a piece of wire. Neat piece!
The mark on the forehead is definitely damage of some sort, but the mark on the neck looks a little odd. It almost looks like there's a pattern or design to it, but after looking at it closely, I think they're just scratches or contact marks. A very nice coin though tdec. Bruce
The mark on the forehead is a strikethrough, but not a wire, a piece of thread from a rag. They used to use a rag to wipe off the dies and sometimes a piece of thread would stick to the die. And counterstruck is the wrong word. A coin that is counterstruck is when the coin of one country is marked (counterstruck) by another country to indicate the value of that coin in the 2nd country. I believe your coin is over-struck. That's when one country takes an existing coin and uses it as a planchet and strikes their own coin. I believe that what you're seeing on the neck are remnants of the original coin. But I can't make out what the original coin was.
Doug, it does look like the remains of a design, but I hesitate because I am not aware of Mexico City Mint overstriking portrait issues.
They did. And it was not uncommon. They'd use any source for planchets they could get and had done so for centuries. You have to remember, by 1796 the Mexico mint had been churning out coins for over 250 years already. The practice was even more common back in Europe of course, but that's where they got the idea to begin with. Making planchets cost money, so any opportunity to save was taken. You also have to remember, those savings went straight into the pocket of the mint master
Never knew that about overstriking at that time. I don't think I've ever seen another early portrait overstike from Mexico City.
GDJMSP, could you please post reference material regarding your assertion that Mexico commonly used other coins as planchets and overstruck coins? I have collected and studied 8 Reales for 36 years with an emphasis on Mexico City Mint and never come across an overstruck milled 8 Reales with an Mo mintmark nor have I ever found a reference to the practice in any book that I can remember. Mexico City mint and the mintmasters there were meticulous in the fineness and weight of their coins, I can't see them taking any chances using anything other than a planchet of their own making. In the example above there is no evidence of an overstrike. The forehead damage appears to be a thread or small wire on the plachet or die, it is clearly struck into the coin design. As for the neck, it looks like a random mark post strike where the coin came into contact with something and was marked. Whatever the cause, that is a nice Carlos III portrait dollar and I hope tdec1000 enjoys the coin.
Unfortunately the moving company has not yet arrived with library, so I cannot quote you written references. However, the coins speak for themselves and over the years I have seen many of them. Here are pictures of one - and here are a few links for reference - http://legacy.stacks.com/Lot/LargeImage/85475?preset=oz http://legacy.stacks.com/Lot/LargeImage/85475?preset=rz http://www.coinarchives.com/w/lotvi...Lot=8040&Val=4f677035f1a3d4ccbdcc3c055f4378c3 http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/print_sale.aspx?saleid=5275 Granted, those dated before 1800 are less common than those dated after 1800, but examples do exist. And I believe the coin in this thread is one of them.
All of the coins you referenced are from Royalist mints where overstrikes are common. (Early date Chihuahua 8 reales are almost always found struck over cast versions of earlier 8 reales) My comments were directed at coins from the Mo mint where there are virtually no overstrike examples that I have ever seen. When the moving van comes, I am looking forward to your library arriving safely and look forward to the references. I am always trying to expand my knowledge of these fascinating coins.
