Hi everyone, Would this 1864 Indian head be gradable? You can see that there is a "spot" developing on the obverse. This coin was purchased on ebay as a coin listed as "1864 Indian head penny in excellent plus condition" for $26 including shipping. The pictures were very, very bad, but I could tell the coin had a full liberty and a possible pointed bust. When it arrived, I was shocked to see it was the 1864 w/L in near Mint State. There is even luster on the coin. From what I can tell, this coin has never been cleaned. I want to send it in to get graded, but am worried the PCGS will label it as "genuine" due to the "spot". Any idea on what it might grade if the spot was not there? I'm thinking somewhere around ms63. Thanks, RR
It's got some wear. I'd say they grade it...spot and all... and depending on the amount of luster still showing it should land somewhere in the high XF range.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...witem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_500wt_1156 You can kind of see where the mint luster in the pics provided on ebay. The reason I graded it where I did was the complete lack of wear on the feather tips as well as having 4 bold diamonds. Thanks for your input, I am leaning toward sending it in and taking my chances. Even if it comes back as "genuine", I know I can sell it for more than I paid + the cost of grading.
The feathers do look nice but the leaves and bow on the back as well as the hair above the ear and towards the forehead are worn.
That coin needs a bath. It might have a shot at a 50 if you can get that spot off.(is it pvc or verdigris?) Thad might be able to offer advice he also has a product that may help.
how can you tell if it is pvc or verdigris? Is there an easy way? Here is a high quality scan of just the area in question. Hopefully this can help tell. Thanks, RR
Well at first it looked like just a dark carbon spot to me, but the really close zoom shot does make it look like a hint of verdigris. At $26 still not a bad coin. I do agree it is an AU coin - the wear looks most obvious on the bow and leaves to the left. Still a nice coin.
No, it will not grade cleanly at PCGS or NGC. That is not just a carbon spot or a toned spot. It is corrosion from verdigris. It doesn't ruin the coin for me but it is enough to bodybag it ("genuine" or "details"). Smaller spots are forgiven. If it were 50+ years older it might get a pass. It's probably the pix but the brown color does not appear natural. I don't see any luster, FWIW. Don't mistake color and luster. Nice coin for the price! Consider using some Verdicare on the spot, just to be sure it is stable. Lance.
Well.....I sent it in to the NGC for fun to see what they would say. It came back as MS63BN!! I am quite excited with the results to say the least. I did not try to remove any of the "spot" and just sent it in. Ill post more pics when I get the coin in my hands. $26 for a greysheet bid of $425!
Post pictures of the coin in the holder, plus some close up pictures. While I don't doubt it - when I look at the original pictures I can't see a 63 at all. Plus the luster is so flat in the original pictures.
I will post better pics when the coin is back in my hand. NGC just posted the grade today. The pics posted already were done with a scanner and are really not great quality. I now have a small digital scope that takes much better pictures. To clarify the reverse weakness....the coin is weak on the leaves and the arrow feathers. There are just too many details elsewhere on the reverse of the coin for it to be normal wear. Maybe struck through grease in the lower lefthand side of the reverse?
Scans likely don't show luster. I see no wear to speak of, and rims bespeak a mint state grade. Worried a bit about the spot on obverse, but suspect they'll just net grade it low mint state as a result (62/63). Nice coin.
Reading the thread now. lol Congrats on your grade. ...and Matt, I think the scans and weak strike combined to lead you astray grade-wise.
Here are some pics of the coin in the slab. Its kind of hard for me to get the lens adjusted to look through the plastic, but I got a few decent ones.
Wow! Firstly CONGRATS!!! A Heck of a result! I still see a little central obverse weakness... But I will defer to the guys who had it in their hand.... and I think you are right Mike... Those scans got me.
Heck of a deal for $26. Congrats. I still can't see the luster across the surface, but in hand it is probably there. Nice pickup.
MS-63 looks like a good grade on it based on what I think I've seen in the auctions. I don't know how the market would take that spot. I think it's safe to say you made a great investment on this one, though. Good going!
With all the "you got ripped off" threads about ebay purchases it is really nice to see someone that won! Congrats. excellent coin.
