need opinions on a toned gold coin

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Thanks for your endorsement GDJMSP, I know how experienced you are and your opinion carries a lot of weight!

Interesting discussion on toned gold.

That's a wild one you posted tonedcoins. I LOVE the way the coin on the bottom of your post looks (the 1923 obverse), I would buy that one in a second!! However, on the top coin you posted (the 1924), I sort of agree with medoraman, to my eye the 1924 Saint looks more a bit more questionable than the coin in the OP (just my opinion) -- although toned coins is certainly not an easy straight-forward sub-area of coin collecting -- and is subjective at best.

Even with that, I still think it's possible that PCGS could slap a questionable color on the OP coin, even though NGC blessed it.

CT member robec emailed me a picture of this 1908 Saint owned by a PCGS messageboard member named toneddollars. I like the way the photo below looks -- and to my eye looks more "natural" than the bright pink colored SG posted above (it might just be an imaging problem though). robec also said that there was some controversy about this 1908 Saint on the PCGS and NGC message boards with some saying AT and some NT. He did verify that toned gold is scarce (a fact that nobody would argue with), especially with any kind with rainbow type coloring. He did add that most of the dedicated (expert) gold collectors like "crusty dark-toned" gold -- I am guessing because there is less question about it's originality. I have to admit that darker toned gold is really pretty and does look more natural.



One of the things I like about the 1926 Indian posted in the O.P (and again below) is it's a tiny bit darker in shade than the massive numbers of dipped gold coins out there -- whether that qualifies it as "crusty, dark-toned" gold, I have no idea. Here is the 1926 Indian again, just so people don't have to flip back to page 1 to see it.

 

:thumb:Me too!!!
In a heart beat!! if I had $$$$$!
:kewl:

 

Thanks Jello!! I know you like toned coins as well!

By the way Chris, I contacted Michael Printz (one of the big coin experts I know) to get his opinion on your question. Here is what he said:

"I'm aware of the coin (have seen it before) and would agree with Dave's assessment of how the coin obtained it's color. I have seen this type of color on gold before when it's been stored in leather. Personally I find it interesting and pretty. The color is NOT "laying on top" of the coin, like a stain, and could NOT be "washed off" with soap and water. However it could be removed with an acid dip that removes the top layers of metal from the coin (not something I would recommend!). The toning is from chemicals in the leather -- and it is the copper in the coin that reacts with those chemicals and tones."

So bottom line is ... The toning on the 1926 Indian (from being stored for decades in a leather pouch) is true toning from chemical reaction and is bonded to the coin. It is not a stain that is laying on top of the coin.

 

Very interesting. Thanks. I admit I wasn't really saying it was, since I agree the copper and silver in the coin can tone, just asking a what if and clarifying where the toning was coming from. I hope you were not offended by the original question.

Chris

P.S. Leather purses huh? I wonder if the AT folks ever thought of that. Ok, shutting up now.

 

No, I wasn't offended ... are you kidding! There are no dumb questions in my book. I am learning too (all the time).
I wasn't sure of the answer myself!

Right ... "leather pouch toning" ... that's going in our coin dictionary right alongside "album toning" ... :yes:

 

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That is too bad WL. Is the other $2 1/2 Indian on its way or did the appearance of the tail bother you too much?

 

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I hear what you are saying Winged. Lots of them were dipped in the past, but I would wager a lot of shiny gold ones have never seen a bath also. I have seen gold coins stay fairly shiny for a long time, it really depends on the era and mint. Some good gold coin books detail which dates and mints come darker or with copper spots more often.

Regardign the spot that is absolutely true. Once your eye locks into something in an image its almost impossible to not see it. This is the basis of people who see Jesus or the virgin mary in an image, they can never look at that image again without seeing that. I have the problem when I do home improvement. My eye remembers every little thing I did wrong, and I can never be happy with it, since all I see is where I screwed up. Coins are a lot like most shopping, if you don't love it in the store you won't like it at home most likely.

Chris

Edit: Obviously I was not talking about 200 year old gold not "mellowing", but more 20th century gold, some has some tone but some I believe is original and still fairly bright.

 

Doug approved !

 

wow.... :rollling:

Like I said before. If you like it, enjoy it.

 

I'm not a toner guy but I like the coin on the left as it's in better shape and appears to have a nice tone, IMO. And possibly easier to sell/trade.
(what is that spot on the eagle's tail?)
If it were me I'd buy the coin that speaks loudest to me.
I absolutely despise buyer's regret.

WL. whichever coin you buy I'm looking forward to viewing it on your grade A website.

Mike

 

WL, CRO has very nice coins, generally. However, I think you are wise to not spend money on a coin that does not speak to you. Lastly, if you value your relationship with CRO, I wouldn't make it a habit of (a) posting their coins before you buy them, and (b) returning coins. Take my word for it and tread carefully, my friend....Mike

 

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I don't like it, I usually like Gold coins to be un toned and more original. I did see a Saint Gaudens before that was rainbow toned that Lehigh96 posted, and I liked that. But for this particular coin, no.

The true thing is, Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.​

 

WL, you should buy what you like. But if you're on the fence then you should back off to the safe side. Never buy something you are unsure about.
Lance.