has anyone every hear about a 1835 large cent doubled die? I have one that the profile is doubled die from forehead to chin! Is this rare?
Yes I have heard of them, they are quite common with the early large cents. They are true doubled dies, not machine doubling, and some of them are worth more than the common varieties. I do not have my middle date large cent book with me but off hand I don't think any of the three rare 1835 varieties have doubling. Ill check tonight if no one else has a definitive answer.
Beef pretty much nailed it... Machine doubling on matron head large cents is common. It shows up most commonly along the nose, but as you point out can extend in both directions from there. No real premium, but they sure are neat.
Here is one I ownhttp://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1143&lotNo=8107&lotIdNo=252122#Photo from heritage. Actually mine might be considered a triple profile. And Mike how can beef be right saying it is true doubled die and you say it is mechanical doubling.
Beef is wrong. There are no examples of doubled dies from hub doubling in the early or middle dates that I know of. There are some in the late dates. In the 1820's and early 30's machine doubling was quite common because frankly the presses were wearing out. Once they switched to the new steam presses in 1836 most of the machine doubling disappeared for awhile. Until 1836 the dies were still produced by hand punching except for the central device which was punched in using a screwpress rather than a punch and hammer. If they had to use the screwpress more than once with an annealing in between pressings then a doubled die would be possible, but I don't know if they ever did a multiple pressing and as I said I don't know of any doubled dies in the early or middle dates.
Thanks for the clarification Condor, I focus more on the late dates and assumed incorrectly that double dies were as common early as they are late. Your explanation is very informative.
I misread him -- maybe it was my doubled vision. lol The effect is mechanical doubling, and Conder, as usual, is correct.
Leadfoot, Now I am curious, I will check the Grellman book when I get a chance this weekend. I know there are varieties in the late date series which have doubled reverse dies. I do not know off hand exactly how many, or their R values. It could be my assessment of common is influenced because I just picked up an 1849 N27 which has a doubled reverse die, but like I said I will check and report back.
I know of some reverse doubled dies in the late dates, I don't know if I would say they are common. But I do believe that most of the DDR's are on common varieties.
Just did a quick scan of varieties where the doubled die is diagnostic and came up with 5. I found one more where the doubled die is not in bold in the Grellman book but is in the describtion, which leads me to believe I missed a couple as I was only scanning the bold in the book. 49 n8 R2 DDR 49 n10 R3 DDR 49 n27 R4+ DDR 54 n13 R4 DDR 56 n17 R2 DDO 56 n9 R3 DD0(doubled die not in bold in book)
Interesting. Thanks for doing the legwork. I don't ever recall seeing a DDR late date, but frankly, I don't collect them by variety, but rather date.
