I recently picked up a nice $20 Liberty in an old PCGS MS60 holder. I showed it to a few dealers at the show who agreed it was PQ for grade or as some of the Coin World advertisers would have it, PQ+++, or "looks MS63". I sent it to NGC that body-bagged it. Here is the certification number, numbers can be looked up through their system and digital pictures provided: 2555631-004. Toning is unique. Questions I have is where do they draw the line, is their technology advanced enough to be 100% sure, and what are the chemicals used by the coin doctors and how long have they been at it? Thanks.
Didn't you say that NGC body bagged it? Also, do you have any better pics than that? They are too small to really notice much. Plus, the lighting I'm sure doesn't do justice to the coin's actual looks.
That's all I have at the moment. NGC actually put it in a details holder--so technically not "body-bagged", but of no extra value in that holder.
Probably it was felt that something was done to the coin that altered the surface and then was "artificially toned" to cover it up. Some toning is artificial because something colored is added to the surface of the coin, ( not chemically bound to the surface), such as a thin lacquer or glue that has been colored. These substances could be detected if sniffed, but also could be detected by experienced grader's eyes.IMO. Jim
Gold is very inert. If it's AT, it's probably organic and could probably be removed with acetone and/or xylene. Why on earth didn't you submit it back to PCGS in the original holder for a regrade?
Possibly the case here. PCGS put the coin in their MS60 holder (2nd generation) with greater tolerance for such issues then. My guess is that their reasoning then was "this is an UNC coin with problems therefore we will just give it the base mint state grade". I have seen quite a few certified coins, more likely in ICG holders than PCGS or NGC, with obvious cover-up jobs. The toning is of a violet hue which is not usually naturally occuring. Could be, but likely not. I guess acetone or denatured alcohol are options to remove, or just sent it to NCS and let them do the job. At that point I should get a numerical grade.
I didn't have submission privaleges until recently. What do they charge for this and what is the upside?
Ouch. I hate when that happens. I would be tempted to break it out and resubmit it to PCGS. It's worth the potential 1-8K increase in value. Now that you have a NGC holder, however, you have the advantage of seeing the edges. Anything suspicious about the coloring or tone of the edges? Being in an older slab, maybe the coin slowly turned from the initial artificial toning. Contrary to what the kool-aid drinkers insist, PCGS has graded many coins that NGC has rejected. And, of course, the reverse is true. It depends on the graders, time of day the coins are examined, and the prevailing philosophy at the time of grading (e.g., the stricter standard for copper grading now). Good luck. guy
My first reaction was a "smoked" coin. FWIW, I've never seen nor heard of Dellers used on a gold coin, but my experience isn't nearly as broad as your own, and I'm afraid to try it myself. lol
Well, PCGS no graded it too, even though it had once been graded by them as MS62. I have it back now. I guess the thing to do is crack it, get out my acetone and give the coin a good soak until the crap comes off. Any other suggestions?
Given the potential gain, do you think it might be worth sending to NCS? One would hope its just old lacquer or similar, since others here are right that "messed with" coins were in the past AT to hide that fact. OTOH, lacquer and other things were also put on coins commonly. Best of luck man, please let us know how it turns out.
I called NCS. They said if it's covered with DD or other such material they might just pass on it. So I think I am going to try a non-abrasive cleaning method. Anyone have some "MS 70"? Also, they charge 5% if they work on it. That works out to $75 or more plus grading fee.
Good news on this one--after removing the surface stuff with acetone and running water, I submitted with some other coins. NCS kindly called me and offered to do an express job on it. I heard today that it graded MS 63. Bottom line; you can't fool the TPGSs any more.
