why NGC coins do not cross to PCGS (a theory)

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I would simply judge the coins independent of the holder. If you think the 2 are similar buy the cheaper one. If the PCGS looks a lot better than the NGC, you would need to judge if it's worth the extra money to you. For me, I never, ever buy something based on what the plastic says, or whose plastic it is, as long as it's either PCGS or NGC (which are the two TPGs I have come to "basically" trust over the years). ((Not saying there aren't great coins in other TPG's plastic)).

However because of the Registry Set "game" that PCGS has, I do think there are more buyers interested in PCGS holdered coins (which I think may tend to drive prices up in some cases).

 

How about this comparison a modern commemorative

2000-P $1 Leif Ericson PFUC70 NGC price 1030
2000-P $1 Leif Ericson DCAM70 PGCS price 3000

 

post photos of each ... (i think $3000 is a LOT to spend on a modern commem though ... even 1000 is a lot to spend on a modern $1 silver commem IMO)

 

I agree with you on that comment I would never pay that type of money either. I do check auction prices as well for something I might be interested in getting, those were the price guide amounts and not what was offered for sale.

I guess when wanting to get a 70 versus a lower grade and the only way is thru an online venue,, with that much of a price guide difference it can make it a bit more difficult going with one or the other.

 

If I can add anything to that, it's learn how to technical grade. On that issue, when you get into mint state, you're basically looking at two broad categories of criteria, contacts and luster. Familiarize yourself with the market, and so much the better, now you can assign grade numbers off that technical criteria.

 

I agree with the point about checking auction results. I disagree with some of the other points. There are swaths of the coin market where PCGS plastic does tend to mean a significant price difference at auction. Again, they may not apply to the coins that the person making such statements buys, but there are certainly many cases where it does apply. For high value coins, say numismatic coins above $2000 in value, the price differences tend to be greater than for lower value coins. Some examples in lower price ranges might include high grade Buffalo nickels, most high grade moderns (post 1950) and ultra moderns (post 1982). There are many more, these are off the top of my head where auction archives will show strong evidence of real and measurable average differences, not one or two exceptional coins. Again, best for collectors to check the archives for the coins they collect. It can also be informative to look at results for other companies as well, because the average price differences are often even greater. Again, isolated examples are one thing, many data points become evidence.

 

I agree with GDJMSP about PCGS's modern MS70 or PR70 grading policy, they used to be very strict, very few coins were graded 70, in the past year or so, there have been many coins graded70.

 

RedTiger, you're not giving enough credit to their Ministry of Propaganda...I mean, their "Marketing Department" (yeah, that's the term)...for those auction price disparities.

Disclaimer: IMHO.

 

IMHO there is way tooooooo much hype in the grading and trading coin business. Coin collecting though is still honorable and a very balanced hobby. With regards to the 70 grade, it is hardly considered the ultimate seal of approval. There are many 69-grade coins which are equally appealing gems. I am currently putting together a set of choice PF69 grade statehood quarters. Apparently the "CAC" label was supposed to filter through the ******** and authenticate the authenticators, to keep them all honest. But the source of this additional benefit is again from the same pool. So now we have grades, + grades, secure grades, first strike, early release, special labels, population stats, and so on. Perhaps PCGS or NGC are thinking of a new special grade verification process where they hold on to the coin for an extra day, and use three more graders to give it a regrade? And they expect some customer to no doubt shell out more for this type of nonsense. I recall that one well known dealer speculated a while back that he had one of the very first dollars struck by the USMint and that George Washington had "very likely" handled it. Needless to say it convinced the next buyer to purchase it at an healthy extra premium, and the TPGs could certainly have thought up a special label and designation for this particular gem. I cite this as a good example of the near eccentric whims that have come into play in coin grading and pricing. But as stated in this forum : Buy the Coin!

 

>>
RedTiger, you're not giving enough credit to their Ministry of Propaganda...I mean, their "Marketing Department" (yeah, that's the term)...for those auction price disparities.
>>

While there is an element of marketing, I attribute most of the wide price differences to differences in relative populations at a given grade, that, and registry competition. In some series there might be five times as many NGC coins at a given grade level vs. PCGS, so the NGC coins are naturally going to trade for less. Marketing is likely only a minor influence when the supply is that much greater.

There are many series with many grades where there really isn't a measurable price difference. Again, collectors would do well to check the coins they tend to buy, not take someone else's word for it. If the price differentials were primarily due to smoke and mirrors and marketing, that wouldn't be the case, the price disparities would tend to be more uniform. I prefer the simpler explanation, that there are far more NGC coins at certain grade levels for certain coins. More supply means lower prices. Both companies publish pop reports and both can be accessed via the Heritage auction archives.

 

All good points ... Here is the link to PCGS's auction prices realized ...

http://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/

For some of the coins I checked, PCGS listed PCGS, NGC, and ANACS graded coins ... as well as raw coins .
Here is an example page ...

http://www.pcgs.com/AUCTIONPRICES/details.aspx?r=3302&v=VDB&dv=1909 VDB&pf=PR&c=46&g=0

Be sure to watch the dates. The page above goes back 7 years.

 

I agree totally that TPG is a business first and foremost ! If you notice, PCGS has marketed themselves through dealers. I saw in much earlier posts that people were urged to submit to PCGS because they would not only get a better "bulk rate", but higher grades which resell for higher prices. Somehow, this makes sense as to how they garnered so much of the market. Face it, no major business except for car rental companies is going to say they are not the "best". If you don't acknowledge you competetor, you are implying they are inferior. I mean, I have been buying PCGS graded coins for as little $1.04 on eBay, so you have to wonder what's up with that.

 

As a matter of fact, why do you think all the big dealers continue to hang out, there, and why do you think those forums continue to thrive and remain so popular? We've seen those big dealers come out, here, from time to time, but they never remain here for very long. Let's just say, they know where the feeding is. Let's credit that to the way PCGS continues to (I'm being polite, here) "market" those consumers, there.

 

I don't subscribe to that service so I can't see those realized auction prices...

 

Maybe slightly off topic, but in the ballpark, PCGS RESTORATION WORKERS ARE GENIUS. I had an expensive Proof Silver Eagle (over $700). It had a small milk spot when brand new. I sent it in to PCGS RESTORATION, not the $5 milk spot treatment. It was probably just a little soak in Acetone, but when I got it back, the spot was gone, and ZERO marks where it was. It cost me $70, and the grade remained at PF69, but this is a BEAUTIFUL 69, and still spot free after a year. I think it would probably be an NGC PF70. It's just one of those PCGS SILVER EAGLES with absolutely no marks at all, anywhere. All mirrored surfaces are perfect. The coin is just awesome, and it had been a PCGS PF69 with the little milk spot. When I got it back, I thought it should be a PF70 for certain, but they may have some little thing that they look for. I think it was well worth the $70, because I wanted it in my collection. I'm just WAY happier having a beautiful and rare Silver Eagle PF69 that looks for all the world a PCGS PF70 WITH NO MILK SPOT. I HAVE A PAIR OF 25x surgeon's glasses, and the milk spot was completely lifted off with not even the tiniest mark. It just had to be a very tip top surface spot. Milk Spots CAN be removed by PCGS with NO DAMAGE. But it has to be a small spot, very light in color, and on a Silver finish, and not a mirror or a puffy Ultra Cameo lumpy finish. And I'm certain that it was Acetone or an experimental mix. I also think it has to be a nearly new coin. I'm just thrilled to have a beautiful, spot-free Eagle in my collection that I thought was a goner. I just want to say that those guys are GOOD! I wish I could send it in for CAC certification, but they don't do Silver Eagles. All that I can say is that PCGS RESTORATION SERVICE is worth a shot if You have a coin that you love.

 

Hum

 

Very valuable information, thanks....did they open up your slab and then re-seal it ?