My First Ancient Coin Purchase!

I was really bummed that thread didnt get more comments. Amazing coins & amazing pictures.

 

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Yeah, sorry, that was the annual wage. And it's really hard to just straight up convert value to a modern currency, since many things, like clothes, were far more expensive back then than today. We don't have too many prices from this particular period, but for an idea of relative values of things like these were, you might want to check out The Edict of Maximum Prices. Its from 301 AD, after centuries of inflation wore away the value of the denarius to the point where it was now just a base unit of a ghost currency, but it might give you an idea of how much someone in certain jobs could buy. This is a collection of government mandated price ceilings, not prices taken from the market, so don't put too much stock into the exact prices. Treat it as a rather rough guide, particularly since it's 400 years removed from your coin.

 

Winged, as a basic primer to ancients, (glad to see you here), Romans are the most common ancients you will probably find overall. "Greek" has varied meanings, with many calling any ancient mediterranean area coin "greek". Many of the coins called "greek" would have gotten you punched in the mouth by the issuer if you dared to call him greek, (carthaginians, celts, etc etc), but "Greek" is mainly used by collectors to mean simply "ancient, Mediterranean area, non-Roman". A ton more cities issued these, but in total they are scarcer than Roman. You also have Chinese and Indian ancient coins, but those are usually collected separately.

Now, for Romans, you have Republican coins like yours, "Classical Imperial", (my term), and late Roman. Republicans are very collectible, varied designs, and popular. Yours is nice especially because the reverse is very sought after. "Classic Imperial" to me, (its my term I can define it), is Roman from Augustus to Diocletian's reforms. These are also highly collected, varied, and can be very interesting. Late Romans are the most common Roman and ancient coins, though in high grade are very collectible and scarce. Another type of Roman coin is "Roman Provincial" which is, (mainly in the east), cities while under Rome were allowed to strike their own coinage. Roman procurator coins, (like Pontius Pilate), in Judea are an example.

We don't like slabs for a number of reasons, one we cannot research the coin because its in a coffin, two it adds costs, and three we disagree with US grading system. Grading like in the US is not of paramount concern in valuing an ancient, and adding slabbing just adds costs, imposes a foreign grading system, and prevents us from doing what we like as collectors. I do not begrudge a beginner a slab, its like training wheels, but we all hope collectors move beyond them.

Regarding toning, I know you like toned coins, so ancients should be a wonderful place for you. Since we assume all coins are cleaned, and there are no premiums for toning, (your type of toning), you can collect them to your hearts content. There are many types of toning in ancients, the one that does command a premium is called "hard green" patina. It forms rarely on copper, cannot be AT, and really makes a beautiful coin with the patina highlighting any relief. Some large early Roman bronzes with the patina can bring 5 figures.

Anyway, that is a start. We are always here to help if you have more questions. Please make sure you visit Doug's website as it is very helpful.

Chris

 

Shes a real beaut!

 

Wow beautiful Republican Coin!!!! I am very impressed, what a great first ancient! I love the toning and the portrait on the obverse is superb. I also like how the reverse images are within a wreath, very cool. Beautiful coin, collecting ancients is a very fun thing to do, but a bit addictive...... but, unlike other addictions (drugs, gambling et cetera) it is healthy, and usually less expensive.

Enjoy the world of collecting ancients my friend.

 

dougsmit, your analogy referring to a slab as a coffin, made me laugh. (medoraman used the same reference)
gao, interesting reading -- thanks for the reference.
medoraman, good summary -- thanks for the info on the hard green patina, sounds beautiful
petro89, thank you!
rexesq, yes, i haven't seen that many with wreaths, that design element really caught on in later cultures.

I put the coin in my signature composite format below.
I edited out the slab tabs in Photoshop -- a tricky process.
In terms of the hated slab, I can always crack it out. At least I know it's genuine!

 

Winged, keep the coin in there as long as you like. Like most things in ancient colelcting, its up to you. If you like them that way, that is completely your choice. We were just trying to "get you up to speed" as it were with us.

BTW, there are tons of wreathed ancients, in case you really like that design element. You will find about every design element on coins came from ancient coins.

Chris

 

Excellent work editing. I would not crack it out until you decide whether you are going to be a full time addict to ancients. If you don't have the urge to handle it, who are we to tell you that you should. Compared to other coins I have seen graded in slabs, I'd call this questionably under on surface. The photo looks more a 4 level to me. Perhaps the grader doubts the toning is natural??? It makes no matter because the coin is what it is --- good looking.

 

By the way, these were the other 2 ancient coins I was watching on ebay when I bought the one I posted above. (I put prices they sold for on the coins below).

I liked the little bit of color on both of these -- and also really liked the flying horse on the top coin and the lion on the bottom coin. The one thing I didn't like about the Pegasus coin was there was no lettering on the obverse at all -- it doesn't really look like a coin to me, but more like a medal. However who doesn't love a flying horse!

I put in a bid on the top one in the low $200s but was outbid -- it sold for $230. I didn't bid on the 2nd coin at all as the price got too high for me.

 

Wow, never seen either of those types before, very nice. I can see why they went for so much.

But then again both I believe are greek & not roman republic, so it isnt a surprise the one doesnt have lettering & they went for some good $.

 

Under Pegasus is a Greek letter lambda which is the first letter in Leukas. The coin is (IMHO) offensively flatly struck with no detail on the head of Pegasus. The coin may be VF for wear but the poor strike really would make me prefer a worn Fine with equal remaining details. These coins of Corinthian colonies (there are many besides Leukas) have minor types (yours an amphora; mine a lion) that probably once would have allowed closer dating or identification of the officials responsible for the issue. The price here is fair and a properly struck one would have gone for a lot more. I paid $180 for mine in 1987 and it is only fine.

The Velia is more worn but a good strike and much more appealing to my tastes. I agree with the grade 5 strike listed here and am not surprised it sold for the price. However, if I were to have just one Velia coin, I would hold out for the reverse with the lion attacking a stag (but you will want a nicer one than mine). Now that I've retired into poverty, I'm not buying nice Greek silver anymore but would expect both of these coins to hold their value in the future.

 

Great analysis on the grading! That is very helpful and I learned something.

I LOVE YOUR COINS!!!

So much more detail on your pegasus ... totally agree about the one I was watching ... the detail was very poor.

you are right about the lion and the stag ... wow

retired into poverty? that sounds bad.

I am 54 and all i keep hearing is how they are going to cut my soc. sec benefits even though I've been paying in for 38 years ... I think i have paid in over $200k and my employers another $200k in my behalf. it's discouraging. i think they spent all the money i paid in on wars and bailing out GM, Goldman Sachs, and AIG. What I would like to hear is congress is voting to cut their own congressional retirement plans (of course they can't touch those -- they need their money)

 

Indeed, another coin I have to put on my future "to get" list. (Distant future though :/ )

 

Great point about grading Doug, one which I was going to post to Winged. Coming from a US coin background, be very careful in grading ancients. Traditional grading in ancients is simply grading the level of detail on the coin, period. "Soft strike", "worn dies" etc can be noted but do not allow for a higher grade. Many coins left the mint as a F or VF, its as simple as that. In US grading ALL coins started as BU, even if they are missing a ton of details. Here, if struck poorly its a F. Do not let dealers pull that, XF weak strike BS. If you do you will simply be overpaying since if I purchase it from you I pay for details on the coin, bottom line. Yes its intersting if a coin was struck weakly or worn dies or flan defect, etc., but it does not change the grade.

Too many sellers trying to put this US grading spin on ancient coins nowadays since it allows them to overcharge new collectors or US collectors. Prices in grade books and the like in ancients are ALWAYS for full details for the grade, no excuses. Honestly, I think it makes a ton more sense and is a much easier way to grade than US standards. I think you will find a VF ancient typically a nicer coin than a VF US coin.

Oh, and we have a few FDC, (french for flower of the mint), that is basically MS63+ but they are extremely rare. Other than that our highest grade is a gXF. If you see AU or BU you know its a US collector grading it. A XF ancient is an EXTREMELY nice coin, (think AU55). A gXF is maybe a MS 58-62 but without the "weak strike" excuses.

Chris

 

Beautiful coin

 

Very nice photo edit.:thumb:

Since none of my friends collect coins and many are inebriated idiots, I'd leave my nicer coins slabbed since they would get their grubby hands all over the images in no time. Otherwise, the choice is yours, of course. You will inevitably accumulate plenty of lower grade coins not worth slabbing that will give the opportunity to enjoy the tactile thrill of holding history in your hands without too much worry.

I am sure that there are people who would break out these coins:

http://www.ngccoin.com/gallery/twelve-caesars/gallery.aspx

Knowing the destructive effects of friends, kids, and unforeseen events, I think I would leave those coins slabbed. :too-cool-for:

Most importantly, you now have a piece of history that at least one authority (David Vagi) feels is authentic. Buy from reputable sites and slabbing won't be necessary. Otherwise, you can't go wrong with a confirmed NGC slab from an unknown site--provided you like the coin and don't pay a premium for the slab.


guy

 

I posted that article here when it was new & said the same thing once, thats about the only kind of ancients I would probably keep in a slab, if bought in one.