1915 Austrian Four Ducats

I need som help. I received a Four Ducat coin from a family member that bought it at a bank in Vienna, Austria between 1961 and 1964. I have been informed that the coin should have the following specifiications Diameter 40 mms, Weight 13,9636 grams, Fineness .986, and Gold Content. 4430 troy ounces. At this time I have someone telling me that the coin only ways 8 ounces and that the coin is a fake. Does anyone know what the weight of a true restrike should be? I have seen restrikes of this coin that have different weights.

Thanks for any help you can give.

 

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Your references to restrikes and purchase at an Austrian bank sound like you are talking about a Maria Therese Thaler, which is still being officially restruck in Austria, but was originally issued in the mid-18th Century. It was about 40mm wide, but it weighed about 28 grams. 4 Ducat coins were narrower, but did weigh about 14g. If you could post a picture of your coin, it would help greatly in identifying it.

Approximately 1.57 inches.

Europeans use a comma as a decimal point, so the specified weight is just under 14 grams, which is the equivalent of .45 troy ounces, or a hair under 1/2 avoirdupois ounce. Precious metals are weighed on jeweler's scales, in troy ounces. Your bathroom/kitchen/postage scales weigh in grams/kilograms, avoirdupois ounces/pounds, or both.

A 1-1/2" coin weighs only half a pound? We really, really need to see a picture.

 

Satootoko, I do know that the coin was a 4 ducat and not the type that you mention. I no longer have the coin due to I sold it and now that person is saying that the coin is a fake and wants me to give them some of their money back. I have just seen 4 ducat coins with different weights listed and was wondering if any body would know what the true weight might be for this type of coin. I have also heard where there are fakes of this type coin that are silver and then have a gold finish put on them to make people think they are ture restrikes.

Thanks for your help.

 

So, the person you sold it to only wants some of their money back and wants to keep the coin?

 

Well, a little more research has narrowed the field. Krause lists no 4 Ducats in the 17th Century. All 7 described in the 18th Century volume have a 14g official weight and a 34mm diameter. In the early 19th Century the coins continued to be 34mm/14g, but from 1835-1915 eight varieties were minted with the 40mm, 13.9636g specifications you mentioned. Unfortunately, the information you have provided is absolutely, positively, conclusively insufficient to narrow the field any further. The one thing that is clear, however, is that no 4 Ducats were minted in Austria after the end of World War I, and that Krause makes no mention of any official 4 Ducat restrikes.

Joecoins has certainly put his finger on one strange aspect of your situation - normally when a coin is found to be a counterfeit/replica/forgery/copy, the buyer returns it in exchange for his money back - he doesn't ask for a partial refund while keeping the item.

Equally strange is the claim that a coin which should weigh a smidgen less than 14g actually weighs either 227g or 249g, depending on whether the "only 8 ounces" claim is based on avoirdupois or troy weight.

If I were in your shoes, I would give my buyer two choices - give me the coin back and I'll refund his money, or "pound salt". It sounds like you had a face-to-face situation, so an exchange shouldn't be any problem.

If I got the coin back, I would take steps to find out what it really is, beginning with the posting of a picture and/or a detailed description here.

BTW catalog value of the 34mm coins ranges from $225-3,600 depending on date, mint mark and condition. Bullion value of the gold itself is approximately $170 on today's market.