If I Dood-it I get a whipping.

If you consider the commodity we are talking about, it's of no suprise that these situations present themselves regularly in our trading experiences. We are at the edge of where greed and power make their residence, all part of the double edge sword of Capitalism. We can't change it into something it is not.

 

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If those were the prices being offere then yes it was an attempted (and possibly successful) rip-off. It was just that you never indicated that in the OP, you just said since it was a business I could only think they were being ripped off.

 

I was in a coin shop. Some guy brought in some inherited coins. The dealer made him a terrible, melt value only offer. The guy wasn't happy. I waited for him outside and made him a good offer. He accepted. I don't feel bad. Big whoop, wanna fight about it?

 

Great answer. As others have said, if you interrupt you will get tossed. I cannot tell you how many times I wanted to buy those coins instead.

One idea I have done is to "hang out" around the front of coin shows. I used to volunteer helping out manning the front booth. See people bringing in a collectino to sell, and just quietly volunteer to make an offer after they have shown it to dealers. Sometimes a show organizer might get mad at this, but you are just offering yourself as another sales avenue for the sellers.

 

At the show I was just at I knew the guy next to me was looking at some of the coins I was selling to a table dealer. That was OK, since he didn't ask me about them while I was dealing with the dealer (as part of a larger sale) and the guy then bought two of the coins.

He gets what he wants, dealer makes a few, all of us leave happy (plus the dealer gives me two proof nickels in change).

I've also seen the opposite, where the "guy" barges in and offers the seller. Just not nice.

 

Those are all pretty good answers and some nice stories. This is a small town and the only coin store around, so it leads to a captured audiance. I concur with most all who wrote back and assure you I don't have the least intentions of interfering with a business transation no matter how under-handed it seems. Thank you all for writing your opinions, you have helped to unleft a vail of concerned un-justice.

 

I can not think of one Show Organizer who would not ban you from his shows for these actions. A dealer catches wind that a collector is outside over bidding them and the organizer knows it.. His reputation is in the toilet. You get caught dealing at a show and your not setup around here and your asked to leave pronto, its a small world and your name and face get around pretty quickly as well. If you want to be a vest pocket dealer, get a license and become one. I am not a dealer but I know most of the dealers in this area, Do I agree with all of them? NO... are there sharks in the water, YES.. Its a live and learn hobby.

 

Yeah, if it was blatant. I agree its risky. I was just throwing out what I have done before. I do not feel bad about it since it was at a small local show and the dealers were truly ripping the people off, so I started telling them I would look and make them an offer in private. This was in the mid 90's and dealers were offering people $3 for BU morgans, and 2x face for silver. I bought quite a bit of stuff from heirs who would otherwise received half or less wholesale from those dealers. If it makes you feel better, I started renting a table at the show and simply putting up a sign saying "buying" and sit there and read a book. The rent was only $25. The favorite "thing" I bought was a group of FE cents that some dude put together. Evidently he just loved FE cents and didn't care the grade. The bag had about 400 in it, from AG to fine or so. Other dealers offered him from $100 to $160 for the whole bag, I thought I did well paying him $300 for it.

The problem with "its a live and learn" hobby is that heirs do not have a second shot. They have one opportunity to sell at a fair price, and if they get scammed, (and eventually they will learn they were), these dealers give the whol hobby a black eye. I do not feel 1% concerned if I prevented a dealer from stealing money from a widow, and from the reactions of people I bougth from they genuinely seemed happy I was helping them.

I have lots of dealer friend, have bought and sold, (mostly bought), more than the average collector probably, but have absolutely zero sympathy for the sharks. I love this hobby, but there is, and has always been, way too many sharks willing to take advantage for my taste. If the person walks into someones store, I will nto say a word. If they are walking into a public venue and I see they are being scammed, I will try to help the people out. I even advertise on CL and places helping out people who inherit coins to make sure they get fair value. The dealer needs to make a living, but paying one third wholesale to a little old lady is crossing the line to me. Would you say nothing at a car swap about a shady dealer trying to buy her deceased husband's GTO for $3k?

 

I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea about what did and didn't occur in the incident above.

I never said anything to either the owner or the customer. Not only had I made previous purchases at this B&M, but he knew that I also browsed his (non-eBay) auctions in which he charges a 20% BP. (Which I also think is rather high.) The only reason I leaned over to see what Morgans the customer was offering was to see if there was anything that the dealer might want to "flip" to me once the transaction was completed and the other customer had left.

I would never "horn in" on his deal, and I wouldn't do this at a show either. I also wouldn't approach the customer outside of his store to ask if he had anything else for sale whether he accepted the current offer from the dealer or not. It would only make it look bad for me if I wanted to maintain any kind of relationship with that dealer.

What irritated me was the rude treatment I was given by the owner, both, in being ignored and by the nasty look when the other customer was present. If you had previously spent $5K at this establishment over an 18-month period, would you want to be treated like that?

Chris

 

I agree, the treatment you received was not appropriate. If a dealer wants to stay in business, he must treat all of his customers with respect. Especially ones he knows spends money there.

 

But were you paying for table space? Volunteer or not, you should have been banned from the show area.

 

Sometimes I would volunteer to help, other times just hang out. This show was in a public area, so not until you stepped into the hall were you in the "coin show". Outside was public.

 

Justify it as you wish, but the fact is that people (the public) were coming there because of the coin show and you were attempting to intercept possible customers of dealers who legitimately paid to sell and buy there. Do you commonly hang out in that area outside the hall to solicit coin deals with passers-by? If not, then you have no case.

 

I enjoy taking with a favorite dealer at shows. We have a good relationship. I have bought many nice coins from him and sold some as well.

On more than one occasion a collector has stopped by to sell something I find interesting and might want to buy. I step away from the dealer's table, wait for him to complete the transaction and then ask to see his new coins. He always accommodates and when I do buy I know he has made a little profit in a matter of minutes. As he should.

When the deal doesn't go down I always ask if he would mind if I looked at the coins he turned down, and in another location. He always flashes a genuine smile and tells me to handle the matter right then and there.

This is not something any of us should expect but it is the sort of thing that comes from showing a little courtesy and respect. Most dealers appreciate your consideration, patience, and understanding. And the ways they express that appreciation will benefit you enormously.
Lance.

 

This would be akin to walking into your bank and seeing another customer with the loan officer, butting in and offering the same length loan at a lower interest rate. It's very close, imho, to theft. Outside the shop would be O.K.

 

Well, I posted I only did it because in that particular show the public was getting fleeced, and after a show or two I bought a table. I also said that I would never consider doing that in or near or around a coin shop, just this public show.

If you think what I did was wrong so be it. I just could not stand seeing unknowledgable general public being offered 1/4 wholesale. To me that is not business it is theft.

Listen, I had experience running a show, so I know what you are saying. However, in the show I helped organize and run, if we heard about a little old lady getting ripped off we stopped it. I had an incident where a dealer was telling a 80 year old lady that her husband's bust halves were only worth $5 and he was being nice offering that to her. This was in the 90's and the halves were original AU-BU. One of the club members overheard it, and before she sold them we stopped the deal, had the dealer leave, and took her over to another dealer at the show to buy them, (he paid her about $60 each). That dealer was not permitted to return to future shows. Our show was the most popular in the state after the state ANA show, and we liked to think its because we helped protect the public. To this day this show has waiting lists for dealers to get in.

Think what you like, but I sleep well at night. Dealers need to make money, I have written over and over how its standard that they pay half retail on average for coins and that is fine and dandy. Stopping a dealer from scamming clueless little old ladies by paying 5% retail to me is not "business" its theft, and I for one will not tolerate in my show, and I refuse to tolerate it if I am knowledgable about it and its in public. I have also participated in stings concerning "gold buyers" as well. Is that wrong of me as well?

Sorry, this is just a hot button for me because of the sleeziness it brings to our hobby's reputation.

In short, if a dealer is conducting business in his shop I say nothing ever, if he is conducting business in public and it seems to be "reasonable" I say nothing since that is rude and wrong, but if someone is scamming innocents in public I will not keep silent. "Scamming" is not offering $40 for a $100 coin, it is offering $4 for a $100 coin to someone who is not a knowledgable collector. This happens quite a bit, and I just cannot stand by if I know of it. I would hope most here could not as well.

 

Well, now I'm confused. A while back there was an ongoing "conversation" regarding bank tellers paying face value for silver coins, which were clearly worth far more than face value, then the tellers were buying the same coins back from their drawer at face value. The consensus was that they were simply conducting the employer's business. So now, we have a dealer offering $4 for coin worth $100 and, in the process attempting to fleece the little old lady seller. If you feel that you are justified in stopping the fleecing of little old ladies at coin shows, are you also of the opinion that you should stop little ladies from turning in rolls of silver coins at a bank for face value? Are these situations really different?
:dead-horse:

 

Good for you Medoraman, kudos for standing up for truth, justice, and the american way.

 

There is a huge difference in these situations, in one you have a lady turning in a bank-roll and receiving face, maybe she knows, plus how do you know they are silver. In the coin show example, you have a knowledgable dealer, who is lying to her face just to make a buck off of her. This dealer, if he has is at an ANA show has to follow guidelines anyways, is breaking rules and taking advantage of an unknowing lady, while the teller may seize an oppurtunity.

If you were the teller, would you not take the silver coins if they came through your tray?? I think you would.
If you were a dealer would you lie to the general public and take advantage of them?? I would like to think not.

 

I think we should ban little old ladys from turning in rolls of silver to banks. It's a danged disgrace. After all, they may be contributing to the delinquency of tellers (most of whom couldn't discern the difference between a silver coin and a "golden dollar"). Notify the Secret Service. A crime is being committed...... Better yet. Get ATF on the case. I'm smelling terrorist tendencies here.....Those guys got them bomb sniffing dogs right? Maybe they's gots "silver" sniffing dogs too. Save the country, save the people.......(Laura Nyro)