US Large Cent Error

This coin is not supposed to exist. I found it in a old baby food jar wrapped in an old piece of cloth. I am assuming it has somehow been altered to look like an 1815 Large cent, all comments and opinions are welcome.

 

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looks like the 4s been smashed/tooled to look like a 1. the rim is bent also otherwise its just an extremely worn coin. worth a few bucks.

 

I agree. I think this is an 1845 cent that has been altered to have an 1815 date. This design didn't begin until 1839. I also think the date area has been smashed and bent a bit.

 

PMD and I think that just ruined the coin.

 

1845 altered to 1815. Your coin has the wrong obverse for the time period of 1815. (Yes, I know no Large Cents were struck in 1815.) Notice that Liberty on the obverse is of the style used in 1837 and later. That style is known as the "Young Head". The style of Liberty used in 1814 was the Classic Head and the style of Liberty used in 1816 was the Matron Head. 100% absolutely, positively an 1845 altered to 1815.

 

I agree with the fact that it's probably an altered 1845, but my question is why and when. Looking at the pic at least makes it look like it was done many years ago, as the color around the date matches the rest of the coin. It could be that someone altered the date to commemorate their birth year, and then carried it as a pocket piece. The heavy wear is similar to what's normally found on a pocket piece. Very interesting coin Joshark, thanks for posting it.

Bruce

 

Coin collecting (by the masses) really began in 1858 - after the Large Cent was discontinued. Because very few people collected coins up until that time you could put together a nearly-complete set of Large Cents (and Half Cents) from circulation. Like State Quarters, lots and lots of people were trying to put together a date set but they were frustrated because they could simply not find a Large Cent dated 1815. The reason was - no Large Cents were struck in 1815 but most people did not know that. There was no Red Book back then that would have told them there were no 1815 Large Cents. Unscrupulous people altered the date on 1845 Large Cents to 1815 to sell to collectors "so they could complete their set".

 

What about a 1805 because I see a light circle around the 1 !

 

please read again what hobo said. when he says "liberty" he's not talking about letters, but the portrait.

 

It's a different style Taylor. Coins dated 1805 would be Draped Bust Large Cents not young heads as Hobo says. Whatever reason the 1845 was altered, it was done a long time ago and doesn't appear to be contemporary. I think he's right on about the alteration being done so collectors would have an "1815" to add to their collection. Good call Hobo.

Bruce

 

Sorry guys...should have done some reserch... :smile-Taylor

 

No problem. We are not born with this knowledge. Sometimes you have to read between the lines. And sometimes you have to back up and look at the big picture instead of focusing on minute details. In this case the big picture to me was the fact the coin has an obverse design that did not exist until 1837 meaning the host coin could not have been struck before 1837. That means the host coin could not have been dated 1805. (Take a look at Liberty - and, like swish pointed out above - I mean the female figure that represents Liberty - on this coin and compare it to a genuine 1805 Large Cent. Liberty on this coin looks nothing like Liberty on an 1805 Large Cent.)

Hang around here and pay attention and before long this will become second nature for you.

And remember this - a little knowledge can be dangerous. This is especially true in numismatics. An answer for one situation may be completely wrong in another situation. Numismatics is fairly complex but over time you will learn the important stuff - by reading, by listening, by asking questions. Take your time to learn these things. You are not going to become an expert in a month or two. Many collectors (if not most) spend many years acquiring their numismatic knowledge. I am still working on my numismatic education. That is why I am attending ANA Summer Seminar this week and next week.

 

It would have been my dream, Hobo, to come to the ANA Summer Seminar with you! I would have learned so much and had a great time, but I am still not able to travel on my own(do whatever I want). I am 12, and I know that I could have come, but my mom is still making me do what ever she needs to do, and It did not fit in with our summer plans to go there.(I could have squished it in there but my mom certainly can't)

It is also a problem on my part: I buy all of my own thing for this hobby and my budget would not have included the ANA summer seminar! It is really sad, but I think I can learn by reading online and in my club's library, so I can save most of my money for coins! I will post a thread about some cheap world coins I got at my coin meeting last night! When I get home(at my grandmother's house) I will post my new U.S Coins I picked up! :smile

I am very lucky because around January of next year, I will get my membership to the ANA! ( had to postpone due to good deals at coin meeting last night) :smile


I also plan to join C.S.N.A for $10 a year! :smile

I also plan to join the Young Numismatist of America , which for some reason there site is still down due to overdue bills...


I plan to do numismatics for the rest of my life, though it may not be my job, It will be my hobby! Thanks so much Hobo! :smile
-Taylor

 

Taylor, I'm not sure about this but I think you have to be at least 14 to attend Summer Seminar. Check with ANA about that. (Talk to either Susan or Emily. But don't call now. They are busy with Summer Seminar. Give them a call or shoot them an e-mail in about a month when they have recovered from these two weeks.)

 

Yeah! Thanks Hobo! You have been so helpful with my collection that I am research coin grading! :smile

 

Hobo answered this well.

From what I have read large cents circulated long after small cents came into being. The amount of wear on this coin and the type of alteration leads me to believe the alteration was done after all of the wear had occured, so after it was pulled from circulation. The alteration is comical though, so I believe its old. Best guess would be somewhere between 1860 and 1880 they altered this coin, most likely closer to 1880 due to the level of wear. These coins were not soft like gold or silver, it takes a lot of usage to wear out a large cent. I have seen large cents taken out of circulation during the civil war in hoards. The mid 1840's were typically not this worn, this level of wear would have been an 1820/1830's coin in those hoards. That is where this guess is coming from.

Other than that pure guess of mine, I have nothing to add to Hobo's answers.

Chris

 

That's OK, you are doing some thinking and looking for other possibilities, that's the important first step.

There are a lot of organizations that offer scholarships to the Sumer Seminars especially for YN's. Something to check into maybe.

You also said you were joining the ANA. They offer a scholarship, and they have other programs for YN;s including an ancient coin program and now a large cent program that allow YN's to earn up to 12 free ancient coins and large cents (I don't know much about the large cent program it just recently started.). Two more things to check into once you join. You can find out more about the programs here http://www.money.org/Content/NavigationMenu/ExploretheWorldofMoney/YoungNumismatists/default.htm

 

oK....I will check them out now and sign up in December

 

Maybe I am reading more into your message than you intended, but don't you mean 1839? To me you can't confuse the head of this coin with those in 1837, 1838 and most of the 1839 types. The braided hair start with 1839, but those were the petite heads and the mature heads came out in 1843. Maybe I am just reading more into your answer than you intended.

 

Yes. The years 1835-1839 had quite a variety of looks of Liberty, but one thing is clear... the image shown in the OP absolutely has to be 1843 or later. As Hobo mentioned, this is an altered 1845

For the OP... the way to tell is by looking at the tip of Liberty's bust. If it lines up with the "8" in the date, it's a Petite Head (1839-1843). If it lines up with the "1" in the date, it's the larger Mature Head (1843-1857). These two sub-types are collectively known as "Braided Hair" cents.