Large Cent Tip #7

This is an R5+ variety (S-35) which is even rarer in this early Die State. This variety typically has a strong crack through the right side of E. This one does not. Now state I with no clash marks is Extremely Rare and State II with clash marks, but no die crack is Very Rare. I can't see anything in the way of clash marks, but that's not totally unusual. This is a meaty coin but with some old fairly deep scratches which have retoned nicely. Please comment on what you think it should grade and whether it has any other issues.

But hurry! It goes off auction soon.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180683817389

 

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Well I think you got the attribute right. I am not sure if I am imagining things or not, but I thought I saw the beginnings of the cracks. Now for grading I put it VF and net graded it down to G details. What I see are harsh cleaning, scratches, and pitting. Wait for one of the real EAC'ers to respond. OH - and I am not sure if that is a slight clip. Looks like it to me, but not sure. Just my humble opinion.

 

nice details

 

i dont believe thats a pit on the reverse - just more damage. just imagine if that coin wasnt damaged in any way i would expect it to sell for more then Tip #6 which just sold for 1650.

 

I don't know how to net grade something like that, but I think it should go for much more than $217

 

Correct - I meant to say porous. Looking towards the rim on the reverse - just looks soft and porous. And I expect this puppy will jump towards the end.

 

I think any crack you see at the E is imagination. Actually, the first crack becomes evident on a break from the rim to the bust at the left edge of 4 which is State III and also very rare. Now I'm not sure what the standards for rarity of Die States is since this variety has 31-45 total survivors and there are 8 states and normal distribution would permit only about 5 coins per die state while only the first three are called extremely rare or very rare. I suspect those states have only one or two examples each.

 

Could very be Marshall. I downloaded and tweaked the pictures several different ways - so it could just be imagination.

 

Well, even with the scratches (which in my opinion are only severely distracting on the obverse), it is still a nice and rare coin.

Difficult to grade, but I will give this a shot: Average, F12 details, severe scratches on the obverse, lighter on reverse with some lt. dents and lt. cleaning- net ???

 

Up to $785 now and the two highest bidders usually go for toys?

 

The Toyman Wins with an $1110 bid! I hope he appreciates it's numismatic value.

 

Okay - how in the heck do you tell who won?

 

You can connect to the coin through the link even after the bidding closes; then click on the bids (blue) and it will give a list of bidders with the middle obscured with stars. Sirmarshal would become (S***l). Then click on the winning (or other) bidder and you can see a list of his recent bids and who how they were catagorized. I think this is to prevent obvious shill bidding.

In this case, the winning bidder has been bidding on toys and wooden boats. This is the only coin he has bid on. Others will have several Large Cents and nothing else while some will have a variety of coins listed.

 

I think that $1100 is too high ! That coin would not sell too well when you bring it to a dealer ten-20 years from now, or your heirs do. I don't like a coin with so much intentional damage.....like a kid took his pocket knife out and gouged it out of boredom some 200 years ago ?

 

That's why I hoped someone would get it who appreciates having one of possibly a half dozen (for states I, II and II combined) examples of a coin in an early die state of a rare variety to begin with. It tells us more numismatically than a typical coin with the usual die breaks, even with the old scratches. I suspect without the scratches, it would fetch over 3K.

 

It seems the price might be artificially inflated with some shill bidding ? I said before that I can't put an accurate price on a coin with such damage, ....I'd have gone $400-500 on it without a problem....it is a 1794 cent.

For $1,100 I'd prefer a perfect good with no problems.

Problem coins are always discounted....they don't hold up well over time. If you buy $1,000 + coins, there is an investment factor involved.

Now I want to hang the kid that hacked that coin !

 

There's always a preference for problem free coins. I do think that a problem free coin in that condition would have drawn 3K+ in bidding. The question in my mind is how much to discount a rare coin with problems. I figure it like this:

F15 Details on a Head of 94

Common problem Free - $1,000 - $1,500
PLUS R5+ @ 300% $3,000 - $4,500 (possibly more for Die State Rating (R7 or R8)
minus Damage and Condition issues.
This one drew about 33% of my estimate for a problem free R5+ 1794.

Is that too much or too little?

I love details and have less problem with damage than many. Others have big issues with verdigris and corrosion won't touch a coin even at 10% of problem free. Some old timers wanted clean edges more than problem free surfaces. This is where the dealers have to help us with the desires of the current market verses individual taste to evaluate current value.

Doug prefers the G4 problem free for the price.

G4 Details on a Head of 94

Common problem Free - $350 - $400
PLUS R5+ @ 300% $1,050 - $1,200 (possibly more for Die State Rating (R7 or R8)

At least my ballpark estimate seems about right

R5 @ 250%
R5- @ 200%
R4+ @175%
R4 @150%
R4-@125%

 

No shell bidding at all. EAC types net grade their coins and then give a quality rating on top of that, either choice, average, or scudzy. That coins has f15 details or higher, so netting it out with damage I would go vg 8, and with damage it's considered scudzy. But a vg8 scudzy S-35 still books at $1800. I agree damaged coins are harder to sell, which is why it went for 1100 while a corroded example with the same details probably would have gone higher. But it is a very rare coin and in my opinion a good buy.

 

I don't have a CQR for this millennium. I was wondering what the current book for Average and Choice in F15 for the S-35 is?

I know there are R5s and then there are difficult to find R5s. There have only been three sales in the heritage archive where a typical R5 will have about 8 None of them were in an early die state.

 

CQR does not list S-35 F15 choice, I doubt there are many... the Holmes lot 56 which was VF20, really it was 40 net 20 (corrosion + scratch) which I don't know if you want to call average or scudzy but it sold for 10k:

http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=1&sale=54&lot=56

f15 average books at 15k, with the wells example at vg7 scudzy sold for 1800.

I know scratching on a coin is one of the worst things to happen, it's obviously man made. On the other hand, that coin is RARE, had great details, and at 1000 was a great buy.

Thanks again Marshall for the tips you're posting. Did you see what that s-262 sold for!!! I had every intention of bidding, but could not get to my computer in time Made my jaw drop to see what it sold for.