Newb here, am I getting screwed?

I started out reading coin books and filling holes in my whitman album from my mothers coin jar

 

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...or you might end up starting a thread like this one:

http://www.cointalk.com/t172193/

and even a follow-up:

http://www.cointalk.com/t175499/

 

D, I too use proxibid & have found that there are good houses & bad houses within. Try searching midwest coin, they have a no questions asked return policy & generally have a $10 flat shipping for ALL lots won. Beware of the buyers premium & never ever ever buy from a fuzzy pic, or a "Unsearched roll" I also recommend getting a copy of Grading coins by photograph, it will save your life!

 

Dcramer

I just wanted to throw my two cents in on this issue. I own an auction company and I specialize in coin auctions, I have held auctions on Proxibid and I am not familiar with this auction company so I dont want to comment too much on their company and practices. I will say though that auction companies have a fine line to walk. The first obligation of the company lies with the seller. I am obligated to list their coin and describe it in the manner they choose, however, here lies that fine line, if the seller gives me the description of an 1889 CC graded at a 63 by SGS and its value is 50k, well I know that grade isnt accurate and therefore neither is that value and now in order to serve my potential buyers I will list the coin and its grade by SGS but I wont list the consignors described value. The line about dealers buying alot of their coins through his company gives me pause also. I am not a dealer so I dont know exactly how coin dealers go about replenishing their inventories, but he must not be realizing the prices he should be for his consignors if dealers are replenishing through his auctions.

If I could give you any advice about having accurate values for your coins, go to greysheet.com and purchase on of their bundles, which I believe costs about $22 dollars or so, and that will give you the values you will need for just about any U.S. coin. A book that I would highly recommend to educate yourself about the grading process is called "Making The Grade", its put out by Coin World, it costs about $40 but has incredible full color photos showing several different grades for the most popular coins. Just do me a favor and dont judge all auction companies based on this experience. Good luck.

 

dcramer

One more quick bit of advice, if these auctions havent happened yet and you are not comfortable with your bid you are within your rights to contact the auction company and tell them that you want to retract your bid. If the hammer hasn't fallen for that lot then you are not obligated to keep your bid. Check out their terms and conditions and see if they say anything about this kind of situation, and if they dont want to accomodate you then contact Proxibid before the auction and let them know that you would like to retract a prebid and they should be able to help you.

 

Lessen learned here I guess

 

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you all. I've been pretty busy with yard work getting an underground sprinkler put in that's taken a lot of my time over the last few days. I got outbid on the MSD's that I believe I had way to high of a maximum bid. Got outbid on the other auctions too except for a few coins that were only a couple dollars. Now that I have the yard work done, I'm going to Barnes & Noble today to pick up a few books so I can do some learning before I get myself into anymore auctions. I greatly appreciate everyones advice here on this one.

I will take a look at midwest's auctions. Thanks.

I won't judge the auction companies. It's good to know that Proxibid has a certain level of integrity they expect their sellers to adhere to.

Luckily I was outbid on just about everything so I didn't have to worry about withdrawing my bids. I wasn't aware that you could place a bid, then take it back though. I didn't think internet auctions worked that way??

Thanks again for all the great advice everyone. There's a lot I can take from all this.

 

Yea..luckly when I just started collecting I was too young to use internet autions so I a ok...but you were luckey they outbid you..

 

Did you get a red book yet? I can understand your excitement to jump in the game but you'll at least want to do some reading in the red book first. There's a good read at the beginning of the book to get you up to speed a bit. Then there's mintages for all US coins as well. You'll find that none of those Morgans are rare. You could buy as many as you wanted in that shape, every day, and not make much of a dent in the population. They made 6 million of the 82-O. That's not rare. Most wouldn't even call that a low mintage.

Assuming it's genuine to begin with, it looks like the 82-O could be a MS-63, maybe pass as a 64. Look at some 66's in top tier holders like NGC and PCGS. You won't see scuff marks like that in the fields or all over the cheek. It does have great luster. $50 is probably right around where it should be. Most likely a fair price for what it is.

I don't think anybody takes SGS slabs seriously. You can't. The ANA set standards that many people think NGC and PCGS are struggling to keep up with themselves. SGS gives out unrealistically high, practically unachievable grades like candy. If you can ignore the label, grade the coin in the slab for what it is (or close) and pay based on that, then I wouldn't be afraid to buy them. But there isn't much point when you could pretty much buy the same coin in a top TPG slab for the same price.

Sometimes there might be a SGS bargain out there just from people ignoring the SGS slab though! We've seen that happen.

 

This only reinforces my suspicion that the seller had a shill at work. If you were bidding what you thought was a little high, there is no sensible collector who would have upped the ante. Based on what you had already bid, the seller was hoping to squeeze a little more out of you. I'm glad that you took the advice and passed on them.

Chris

 

Why not send them back?

How did you pay for them?
PayPal? They have buyer protection.
If they graded any coins as BU, and they weren't, then it's a SNAD.

If you used a credit card, you can dispute charges...

Why not fight for your rights rather than do what helps these scammers thrive? Rolling over keeps them going for the next mark.

 

Also, just my .02, but I see dealers at coin shows with SGS slabbed coins.
I can understand a dealer getting SGS coins in as part of their function in the market,
but if a dealer LEAVES the coin in the SGS slab in his inventory, it tells me A WHOLE LOT about that dealer, and if I should trust them or not.

Bottom line, I won't do business with a dealer that tries to sell or displays SGS slabbed coins.

For a private auction firm, I believe I'd do the same. They should know better too.

 

I agree...

 

First, I would be very careful with Proxibid. I have gone to a couple of auctions in person that was on proxibid, and many of the coins were misdescribed, had major flaws not disclosed, etc. The auctioneer is a hack who either does not know coins or refuses to sell them properly.

Second, PLEASE educate yoursel on coins before spending more than a dollar or two for one. The Redbook is a good, cheap resource, so is this board, so are coin clubs. Knowledge is both power and money in any collectible market. If you do not know what you are doing you will get fleeced six ways from Sunday. The cheapest knowledge available is a good book that you read from cover to cover many times. One poor purchase is much more expensive than that. I have said it many times, I have 25k worth of books, and will bet anyone that I have received knowledge that has either saved me, earned me, or increased my self satisfaction with, on coins well in excess of this figure. I might be in the minority, but to me good books on coins are in many many ways the best investment related to coins you can make.

 

Trust me, I would LOVE to send them back. They were very misrepresented in my limited experience. I spent $250 on many different coins, I took them down to a local coin shop yesterday, and the dealer wasn't the least bit interested in them. I don't think I could have GAVE them to him for FREE. Unfortunatly, I was looking at the auction houses terms, and it reads as follows:

All Sales Final

All sales are final; placing a bid is a legally binding obligation. There are no returns or exchanges. All items are sold as is, where is, with all the faults, imperfections, omissions and errors in the written description and photography. Neither Proxibid nor the auction company are responsible for any errors or omissions in the description or photography provided on this website or in Proxibid’s bidding application. Due diligence to verify the condition and description of an item is the sole responsibility of the bidder/buyer prior to placing any bid on this website.

Purchases become the responsibility of, and shall be, and remain at the risk of the purchaser immediately upon acceptance of his/her bid. It shall be the responsibility of the purchaser to insure his/her purchases immediately.

No sale shall be invalidated by reason of any defect or inaccuracy in any of the lots by reason of their being incorrectly described in the listing or elsewhere and no liability shall be borne by the auctioneers in respect of any such fault or errors. This listing has been prepared only as a guide based on information from sources generally believed to be reliable and from the seller but the accuracy thereof cannot be guaranteed or warranted by the auctioneers. Bidder acknowledges that it is their responsibility to inspect all equipment and to make his own inquires.

Since the property sold is second-hand property, seller makes no warranty of any kind and sells the goods on an AS IS basis, further, seller makes no warranty of any kind whatever, expressed or implied: and all implied warranties or merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose are hereby disclaimed to the seller.

So it sounds like I don't have a leg to stand on. I've got $250 in worthless coins, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to just eat it.

 

Yeah that.

 

cramer,

Yours is a story we have heard here many times and will surely hear many more times.

 

SGS - Self Grading Service ....pure BS, basement slabber.

Why not just buy your coins from your local dealer? Most dealers are honest and know what they're doing. A coin shop is a good place to hang out and learn. I love my favorite, local dealer.

 

I wouldn't give a darn about their fine print.
I doubt your credit card company would either if you put in a claim.
No harm in trying... ???

 

dcramer the one book that will really help a newcomer is called , THE COIN COLLECTORS SURVIVAL MANUAL by Scott A. Travers this is a book any collector will learn something from , and newbies will learn some great advice , you can get it just about anywhere coin books are sold , Wizards is a good place but you have to pay for shipping . Buy it and read it . You'll be glad you did .