Toned Coin - "Monster Price"

OK, take a look at this coin, for sale for an eye-popping $4,400 :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41107&item=3042472682

Now, given the coin is in a PCGS holder, the toning is, presumably, genuine. Here are my questions:

1. How does a coin like this get such toning? I would suspect that such toning is not possible by leaving the coin in the original mint packaging.

2. If the coin was toned because it was removed from the orginal mint packaging, what "technique" was used to result in such toning? An album dusted with sulfur? A coin envelope with sulfur-based paper?

3. Are prices this high common for such toned coins? I guess the seller sells them. The seller also has many other very expensive coins for sale -- why sell them on e-Bay? I would think he/she would do better through a prestigeous auction house. But perhaps not --- the prices might be higher that what would be realized at auction and the seller is hoping for wealthy Ebayers with money to burn.

4. Are "monster toned" coins (with monster prices) a fad or are they here to stay (like cameo proofs)?

 

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WOW. You should have warned me about the coin. I almost fell out of my chair.
That is entirely too much for an 86 Liberty Proof. Even 70 shouldn't bring that much.
Another example of why Ebay needs moderated.

How the coins tone. There are all kinds of neat little tricks to tone up coins naturally.
Moisture and heat. Manilla envelopes. Cardboard. Colored paper or cardboard.

 

boy pr68 for that coin seems a little high. are those milk spots i see? or is it something to do with the toning. or yet again does the toning not effect the grade?
i have read that you can get cameo luster under the toning but i do not see it in this coin.

 

Uh, yeah. That thing is off the charts overpriced.

My little magic magazine shows that Pf69dcam is $30. "Do you know the way to use eBAY?" (Music included)

 

I agree. How can it be considered cameo when there is no contrast between the potrait and the field? It is all toned.

Now pog's avatar is cameo !

 

Yeah, ND, remarkable price for a coin that is selling for under the issue price without the lovely toning. The seller also has a PR66 1984 Olympic silver dollar with comparable colors for sale for $3,750.

Based on this, I am tempted to take my "disappointing" commems (84 Olympics, Korean War, Bill of Rights, Spec Olymipics) and "cook" them in a sulfur envelope for a few years, and see what happens!!!!

They would probably turn charcoal black for me

Regarding my question #3, I think I answered it myself. I browsed several of the seller's nice coins (i.e high grade Draped Bust coinage) and everything is well above CDN "ask" (20-30% or so) so it appears the seller is trying to do better than a typcial auction.

 

1. Coin Doctors don't reveal their tecniques.

2. See #1

3. The more people that see your coin, the better your chances of selling it.

4. As more and more of the "new breed" of coin collectors become aware of the hype associated with "monster toners" and "condition rarities", I believe we will see a gradual return to the age old methods of coin collecting.

 

It appears that particular ebay seller is trolling for a sucker. There are several "toned coin specialists" on ebay asking astronomical prices for these coins.

They are amazing looking coins though.

Do these alleged "Coin Doctors" sometimes slip their unscrupulous practices past PCGS or the other reputable grading services?

 

Unless a "doctored" coin is badly done, it is impossible for anyone to say with 100% certainty, how it got that way.
I see that now there is even a book out on the subject of "coin chemistry".
I believe (and this is just one man's opinion) that it is ill advised to assume that any third party grading service is right 100% of the time.
For me, their authenticity service is their only merit.
But again, I must stress that I feel comfortable in my ability to judge coins for my collection, based on my own criteria. Anyone else's collecting strategy is strictly up to them.

 

Personally I find the obverse toning to be unattractive. I don't care for that mottled look.

 

GDJMSP -- That's a nice Franklin.

Here is the quandry: The colors on your Franklin were not created intentionally -- they were the result of 1950's mint set packaging.

However, the 1986 Liberty has clearly had to be "created" -- if the 1986 Liberty Half $ was left in its mint packaging, it would still be blast white.

Now the toning on the coin does look like the result of a "natural" oxidation process and not artifically "cooked". However, I suspect that this toning was "created" purposely -- by purposely putting the coin in an environment which creates the toning. If that is the case, why would one be willing to pay $4,000 for such a coin??

If such coins are demanding hundreds or thousands of dollars, will we be seeing tons of "manufactured" toned modern commem coins 5 years from now, after they were incubated in sulfur envelopes for 5 years? Or are these coins hard to make -- you put 20 in envelopes and only 1 or 2 come out with "monster" rainbows??

 

Speeding up the toning process is not technically wrong. While it blurs the line, people like toned coins. So people do what they can to offer the customer what they want. You don't need artificial toning to get beautiful colors. It doesn't take years. A few weeks in the window sill, will make all sorts of colors.

 

nice franklin gdjmsp. hows the reverse on it fbl?

 

GDJMSP -- So if I understand you correctly, there is not "surefire" way to produce natural pink and blue toning like 1986 Liberty half on Ebay, even after 5-10 years of waiting. Beacuse to me, I would be willing to wait 5 years to produce a toned coin worth hundreds or thousands of dollars that PCGS is willing to slab!!

 

I'm not convinced this toning is artificial, though I'll quickly point out that I'm no pro and certainly not a coin doctor. I've seen on numerous occasion coins that toned in albums look very much like this one...coins that I bought in collections that had been in albums for many years. Album toning technically is artificial, imo, since the coins are exposed to the cardboard/sulfur/whatever. Left outside the albums, the coins likely would look nothing like they do after the same number of years.
But the hobby generally accepts long term toning as natural and desirable. It's the short term "cookers" that are frowned upon. I don't know where and how the grading services draw the line between natural and artificial but I'm convinced that MANY toned coins in holders today were toned intentionally.

Anyway you cut it, that seller is asking insane money for that coin.
Last week I bought some BU memorial cent rolls. Generally speaking I don't care for these but profit is profit, after all. I noticed that the coins on the ends of the paper rolls have toned beautifully...should I send them in for grading and list them on Feebay for a few hundred bucks?

 

here is a seller on ebay who must ahve cornered tha market on toned coins

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&eiasid=nY%2BsHZ2PrBmdj6wVnY%2BsEZ2PrA2dj6wJl4qkCpmFowqdj6x9nY%2BseQ%3D%3D&sspagename=rvi:3:1