1877 Indian head --> what do you think?

At that price why risk getting a cleaned coin? Sure the pictures can be misleading, but is it worth the risk? Spend a few bucks more and get one already graded. These pictures makes me wonder what I might be missing, because if the details are that nice I think someone should get it graded before selling. Just my own opinion.

 

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I am shocked anyone would pay 2 grand for a coin they are not sure of, and not in a proper holder.

 

And at the same time, people are told to "buy the coin, not the holder".

 

Fair enough, buy the coin, and not the (not so good) picture of a coin.

 

I would be willing to bet my right foot that this coin has been cleaned. It's not the picture... I photograph a lot of coins and I am pretty familiar with what pictures can make a coin look like... in fact if you search CT you will find a thread where I showed 4 pictures of the same coin that had been cleaned that looked completely different due to lighting.

This coin looks funky... because it is funky.

 

I'm with Dutch. Something just doesn't seem right. I don't like the color at all. You'd think if the seller was trying to move an expensive coin, he would try to portray it as accurately as possible. Besides, doesn't it seem odd to you that he is asking substantially less than what it should be worth if it were problem-free? If there is nothing wrong with it, why isn't it already certified? You know what they say, "If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is."

There are too many red flags. I'd pass on it.

Chris

 

How come no photo of the reverse?

 

The main thing that makes me think something is wrong is that you have a $2,000 coin that is not in a slab from a major TPG. My intuition tells me that IF it is genuine, then it is probably a problem coin.

I may be able to provide more than just intuition if you can provide multiple photos of both sides of the coin.

 

If you know the seller & there is a guaranteed return policy then go ahead & look at it. Without knowing the seller's reputation, I would recommend that you stay away from it.

 

Can you post a reverse pic? The striking of the words ONE CENT can be a tell as to the authenticity of the piece.

 

FWIW, whizzing does not leave hairlines. Quite the opposite. Whizzing is often done to remove hairlines.

A whizzed coin will have very smooth fields, brilliant but impaired luster (a diffused sheen instead of a cartwheel), and under strong magnification tiny bits of metal may be seen close to devices. If done well, whizzing can be very difficult to detect, especially on proofs.

This IHC has not been whizzed, of course.

Everyone knows the diagnostic is on the reverse. There's little to go by on the obverse. One trait to look for is the bottom serif of the 7's. It's supposed to be squared-off on both, though particularly so on the second one. Here are some pix as a reference.

I wouldn't trust this IHC because I don't trust any keys that are raw. A photo of the reverse would sure help.
Lance.

 

I wouldn't trust this IHC because I don't trust any keys that are raw.
Lance.

Sage advice...Kimosabe.

 

yeah! Thats what I thought
-Taylor

 

Okay.....I bought the coin. I do have 10 days to return it. I am waiting on a digital microscope to come in (thanks to whomever posted the link on another thread).

I have to say the picture that was originally posted is horrible. I now have the coin in hand and it has bright luster in protected areas and wonderful color on the unprotected areas.

I took scans of this coin, as well as pictures with a digital camera. I must say the camera does not allow me to zoom in as much as I would like, but it allowed me to take angled pictures so you can see color and luster.

The reverse has the die clash marks visible without magnification. You cannot really see them in the scans or pictures, but when I get the digital microscope, I will post more.


Scans


Here is a close-up of the date.


Here are some pictures I attempted to take with a digital camera. They are not great, but show how the color really looks.


Let me know if these pictures change your opinion. Thanks,

RR

 

It looks AU to me. Cleaned at some point years ago. The color is off.

 

This is an interesting thread. There are two primary issues: authenticity and surface condition.

I think the coin has been cleaned and this will be cited when it is graded. And I hope it is submitted for grading because a raw 1877 IHC will always be suspect. There are far too many counterfeits.

As for authenticity, the reverse appears to have the proper diagnostics. But having it doesn't end any debate because the same reverse die was used throughout the 1860's and even into the early 1870's. Everything else has to line up too.

The OP's reverse appears to have Longacre doubling while genuine ones do not. But I think this may just be the photo and shadows (see below).

I think I see the common clash marks above the O in ONE. The date does not appear to have been messed with (cool die chip in the upper loop of the 8!). The 7 lower serifs are not boldly square but look pretty good. I am leaning toward genuine.

I'm curious to hear what PCGS or NGC says. Be sure to share it. And you should make sure the seller will accept a late return if the TPG says "questionable authenticity" (they never say "counterfeit" or "fake" for legal reasons). Be very clear about this now, while you can.

Here are some images of the diagnositics for genuine 1877's. The last one is the OP's coin.
Lance.

 

Alright. I suppose it is possible, it may just be my poor eyesite and the fact that the picture is not of the highest quality. It seems that others agree with you, so I'd rather not argue with a whole group's decision.

-Brian

 

Now these latest photos make the coin look cleaned. Jeez! That just shows are poor quality photographs can really effect the way the "lustur" reflects off the surfaces. Now with these photos I see that it was most likely cleaned and in your previous ones it looked to be all RD. These make the coin look RB (Particularly the wreath on the reverse). Sorry, bud. I probably wouldn't have bought the coin. I should have never stated my opinion without proper photographs.

-Brian

 

If this 1877 IHC is authentic but determined to have been cleaned, I can honestly say that it is one cleaned coin I wouldn't mind having in my collection!

Many IHC collectors would be happy to have any 1877 in their collection, especially one in that condition, regardless of cleaning history.

It's all a matter of perspective.