There have been several threads on this forum discussing the cleaning of coins. In every case, numerous members have responded to the question of "to clean or not to clean" with a resounding no. Now I would like to take a moment to drive the point home by showcasing the effects of cleaning on an 1878-CC Morgan Dollar I recently picked up. The links below show the obverse and reverse of this CC Morgan Dollar. This dollar has been dipped to remove what was probably unattractive toning, or possibly just to return it to the "white" state that in the past was more popular. As a result the coin has lost most of its original lustre and, although it still has a little of the original "cartwheel" left it does not have the brilliance. And, it has the dull grey appearance of cleaned coin. Were this coin never dipped, it most likely would have made MS65 and been worth around $1800 or so. In its current condition, not only is it a more difficult sale, but it will most likely sell for $1,200 less! So, in this particular case the collector or dealer that dipped this coin reduced the value of this beautiful CC Morgan by over 65%!!!!! http://www.cdcda.org/Coins/1878_cc_obv.jpg http://www.cdcda.org/Coins/1878_cc_rev.jpg
Stupid question: Over the course of 126 years this coin has been subjected to who knows what as far as enviromental conditions, normal wear of handling, and other conditions. Coins can turn any number of shades, tones and lustre over this number of years. How can you tell it has been cleaned or dipped?
The color and tone of this coin is not the result of normal wear or handling. If it were, the wear and handling would be evident on the coin ;-) In regards to environmental issues, I have not seen any environmental issue that can strip a coin of its lustre and leave it with a grey monotone surface like this coin has. On a coin of this age in this condition, you would normally expect to see a blazing surface with incredible lustre - or - a coin with appropriate and uneven toning and "age". The nature of the toning would depend upon how it was stored - in a paper flip, a cardboard 2x2, an album, etc. In this case, I say it was dipped because there are no marks left from any of the various "contact" methods of cleaning. The only "mark" left is how the coin looks after a chemical has removed a portion of the surface of the coin.
Sad but oh so true . BTW is that a rim ding at 2 o'clock on the reverse, or just an optical illusion from the 2x2 window? If it is, how would that affect the value of a Morgan? I know practically nothing about Morgans, but I would expect at least a 15-30% hit on Japanese Meiji silver with a noticeable ding.
Small dings usually don't make much of a difference overall. Depends more on what caused the ding. Bag marks on the rim have little effect. Take a look at the reverse below the "L" in dollar for the staple scratch. That hurts!
I have been surfing Ebay a lot here latetly and there is a seller whose coins all have an apperance that resemble that Morgan, not just one of his coins appear that way ALL of them. Thanks for the information . I knew those coins did not look right to me and now I think I know why.
Some pictures speak a thousand words, some remain silent and refuse to give away their secrets, and some out-and-out lie. The seller you are referring to may be using a camera setup that is resulting in coins that look dull and washed out, or, he may be selling cleaned coins. Check his feedback carefully.
It may also be the the seller is using a scanner to provide pics of his coins. A scanner rarely if ever will show a coin's luster making them appear dull and washed out. Or it could just be lousy pictures. Collectors need to aware that there are several things that can make a coin in a picture appear as if it has been dipped besides being dipped.
In this case I rather think it is light reflection. cdcda can confrim it - but I think he had the light source for the pic on that side of the coin.
Here is a Morgan dollar I found on ebay just now and unless I am incorrect this Morgan has been cleaned with an eraser or other object becuase you can clearly see the lines running through the coin and the change in the apperance of the coin the top of her head versus the area near her nose. Am I correct in assuming it was an eraser, or maybe brillo pad or other abrasive cloth? link to the auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3916935371&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting Thanks
You are correct. The coin has been cleaned with some type of abrasive material. Impossible to say with certainty what was used to do the cleaning, but the results are very clear. Prior to the cleaning this coin would have been worth $15 - $20 depending upon eye appeal. Now it is a hard sell at $10 - $12, as evidenced by the fact that there have been no bids at $9.95.
Yikes! I've seen some ruined coins like that recently. I've only been collecting for a few years, but I've come across some bad ones. Around here, coins are rumored to be washed silly by the biggest dealer. I talked to a girl named Kim that works for a big coin dealer in Virginia. She told me she was "In charge of the coin washers." I asked her why and how they washed their coins. She said they used baking soda and they did it because they can. I guess for some dealers, ruining coins is a daily activity.
Welcome Iron Morgan!! It really is a shame what some dealers do to coins for quick buck. Unfortunately, even some of the most honest dealers in the business will frequently clean a coin. Personally, I believe this exhibits a complete lack of foresight and a disregard for future coin collectors.
Yeah. This girl was really nasty about too. It was just chance that I happened to meet her and know that she worked there. I was in a Burger King across from this coin dealer, and she walked out of the building to grab a Whopper or something. She acted like they had every right to wash coins because most people didn't know the difference. I was polite to her, but I was pretty burned up. I'd been duped by washed coins when I first started, and this girl almost sounded proud!
