I had a chance to purchase a 1776 Massachusetts Pine Tree copper coin but did not know to much about it. The Red Book explain's alittle but not enough! can anyone tell me about it and what its worth. I can still purchase it but not until I know it will be worth it!
Unless you are very familiar with these, you should not buy one if it isn't certified since it is often counterfeited. The reason the Red Book has so little information on it is because it is extremely rare. If it's raw, pass, unless the seller will agree to submit it for authentication and grading BEFORE the transaction is finalized. If not, it's probably a fake. Chris
Chris is absolutely right stepthenwho, be very careful before you get serious about buying it. Is there any chance of posting a pic or finding out diameter and weight? You really have to know what you're looking at when you buy one of these pieces, so proceed with caution. I wouldn't even consider buying it unless it were slabbed by a frontline TPG. Please keep us posted. Good luck to you. Bruce
Both cpm9ball and BRandM are 100% on the money. Early Massachusetts pieces should really only be purchased already slabbed, unless you are a REAL expert on them. Counterfeits, copies, whatever you want to call them, probably outnumber authentic existing pieces (exagerating here...but the number of fakes is astounding). A consensus by the members here would most likely be 100% advising to only buy an authenticated, slabbed example (by a reputable grading co., naturally). This is good advice, which really should be heeded when dealing with any early Mass piece, especially the Pine Tree's in higher grades, where they can get very pricey.
Well considering the piece you are describing is unique and no genuine second specimen has turned up for a hundred years or so, and there have been tens if not hundreds of thousands of copies made of it over the years the chances of it being real are probably a little worse than winning the lottery. On the other hand Lotteries do get won. But with the odds stacked so high against you, authentication would be mandatory. If you could post pictures we could probably tell you if there is any chance that it might be real. Just don't hold your breath.
I just bought 7 colonial coins from a client and 2 of them are the 1776 copper massachusetts pine tree cent. One weighs 210 grains while the other is 218 grains both with diameters almost exactly same at 31.7mm. The only copy on record weighs 198grains with diameter of 31.8 mm but that coin could be more worn than my raw copies. The set i purchased raw looks to be genuine and match its age. I will send them off to anacs or pcgs very soon as they appear genuine. Ive been a coin dealer for a decade and seen many fakes but these look like the holy grail. It helps that the other coins included in lot were the nova constellatio and other new england coins in the load. Heritage auctions might be getting a nice few auction pieces soon edited - forum rules
For colonial coins, especially the popular ones, it is not an exaggeration to say the fakes outnumber the genuine ones. Especially for something like the pine tree shilling, I'd be willing to bet there are a dozen fakes (or more!) for every genuine piece (and by fakes, I mean high quality pieces intended to deceive collectors - not the cheap stuff pumped out by the millions for sale at parks and museums).
