Recent Finds - is the 1965 MS or SMS

How did I do...I am thinking MS66? What do you all think?

 

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Top is MS, second is AU.

The top one, I'd grade MS64, too many little nicks for a 66. The bottom one looks to have some slight rub on the cheek, neck and hair, so AU58.

 

I see your view on the photo of the second coin...does not show like that at all in hand...guess I need to improve my photo skills a bit.

 

Would have to agree with Merc on #2. The Reverse also shows signs of wear on eagle's head and "dots/rings" above the head. Also, a lot of chatter around the rim.

The Reverse of #1 is MS-66 for sure. The Obverse has a few ticks and I wouldn't consider it a Full Strike so have to go MS-64/65. Obverse rules in grading so, I'll say MS-65 overall.

Good looking pics though.

 

Here is another photo of the 1969 Obverse...this is closer to how the coin looks in hand. Compare it to the other photo (second picture), and wow, they look like two different coins. Lighting is key

 

Overexposure hides the wear, you'll notice the high points are nearly white.

The coin is AU. No ands, ifs, or buts about it.

 

Wow...you have much more confidence in the photo skills utilized on the first picture than I do...thanks ;-)

 

It's fantastic coin, no doubt, and without that touch of wear, it would probably be a 64+.

Of course, it could just be a bit of discoloration or a tad weak of a strike, but the coin doesn't appear to have any discoloration anywhere else and appears fairly well-struck. I tend to be a relatively conservative grader.

 

I think my photos are emphasizing the negative aspects too much. Using the same setup as before, the 1976 coin is an NGC slabbed MS66...based on comments and comparing to the 1965 which opinion had at MS64 or so...where I think the 1965 is a much better strike, the marks are much less severe than the ones on the 76

Thoughts and opinions...

 

I agree with this assessment.

 

The areas I've indicated are not MS66 material.

 

Adjusting a photo to minimize the defects doesn't eliminate the defects, they're still there.

 

Correct...but everything under MS68/69/70 has easily visible defects. It is a question of impact at any grade lower...so if the photos are emphasizing them too much, the grade assumed by the photo will drop and I am trying to get my photos to be representative of what is seen in hand.

 

Both...based on all inputs to this point, I am looking at the 1965 as MS and not SMS as no input has led to the contrary...knowing it is difficult to see the difference many times, and usually higher grade 1965 coins fall to SMS, still curious as to both the MS/SMS and the grade.

 

Okay.....have been working on my camera and lighting settings to get the photos more representative of the coin in hand...here are a couple more shots.

 

The '65 is probably not SMS. I can't be more than 95% confident from a photo in most cases but in this case the confidence is a little higher. Since it isn't going to be graded as an SMS it will get a couple bumps in grade but this won't take it over MS-65 if that far. I'd guess MS-64. The coin is attractive enough and desirable enough but has to many marks to be of great interest to most collectors I believe.

The second coin appears Unc but not a mint set coin to me. It gets no bump since mint set coins and regular issues are virtualy indistinguishable unless you have a lot of experience and even then you can't tell with certainty. I believe what people are interpreting as wear are jut rub marks caused by dragging over other coins at high pressure as often occurs in hoppers and counting operations. Wear occurs at the high points but these rubs occur wherever the design of the other coin is pushing into it. This is a tough one to grade by the photos but it seems MS-64+ is likely. The rubs can hold the grade down since they are distracting.

 

It still sounds like you're trying to raise the grade of your coins by photographically minimizing the defects. Hopefully you are aware that grading a coin through a photograph is relatively meaningless because of the manipulation. You can photoshop every defect out and we can tell you your coins are MS70, but they won't be. You can get a more honest and accurate grade opinion by maximizing the defects.

 

Actually trying to get accurate grade and photo combo. As stated, I can get rid of all with photoshop, on the flipside, I will get too low a grade if photos over emphasize negatives. In post 9, I included a photo of a known MS66...it looks pretty marked up in my photos...so I have modified photo settings.

And the other key I wanted to understand is if the 1965 was MS or SMS...again, accurate photos are key.

Many on this forum discuss the difficulty of coin photography, however the comments in this thread assume my first attempt was perfect and others are tricks to improve. I will post photos of the known MS66 with new camera settings. Going forward, please compare 1965 and 1969 to known MS66 coin so all is relative to my pictures