The more I look at Morgans, the more I like them. I have a good stack of various dates and grades, but nothing that is slabbed. I've always liked the worn look of Morgans, but recently I have felt the need for some higher quality pieces. I have decided to start picking up some nicer examples that have been professionally graded, but I have some questions. Which would you prefer, PCGS or NGc slabbed? And why? Do you prefer your CCs in GSA holders or broken out and in regular slabs? Is there really that much difference between a single MS grade (i.e. 63 vs 64) to justify price? Why do I not see more DMPL examples available? Are they that scarce, or do people not let go of them often? Is Heritage the best place to purchase online? Thanks in advance for your replies, and feel free to make any other comments or suggestions that might help.
Personally, I always went by the coin. Not the plastic it was in. So it never mattered to me which plastic it was. But as a rule, NGC is more consistent with their grading than PCGS is. GSA holders. Yes. Both are true. There are not that many of them and those out there are typically in strong hands. It's certainly one of the best.
Buy the coin, not the holder! Yes, I know that a lot of people will say that PCGS-slabbed coins will bring higher prices than NGC-slabbed coins, but if I'm looking at one from each company of the same date/mm, both graded MS64, and the NGC coin looks nicer than the PCGS coin, I would rather have the NGC coin. The GSA holder does add to the value. NGC is the only company that will grade it in the original holder, but they off no guarantee or warranty because the case is neither fully tamper-proof nor environmentally protective. I have specimens three ways - in slabs with the GSA provenance - in original GSA cases graded by NGC - and ungraded in the original cases. It's up to the individual. For most common-date Morgans, there is very little price difference between MS63 and MS65, so you should try to get the best one you can afford. In the cases where there is a substantial increase in price, say between MS64 and MS65, you might consider going with the MS64 because it still is a pretty nice coin with minimal distracting marks. However, if the price increase is between MS63 and MS64, you might think twice about getting an MS63. It will have a lot more distracting marks than an MS64 specimen, and you might not be too happy with it down the road. My advice would be to save your money until you can afford the nicer coin. I should add that this is subjective in that there are some collectors who think that MS63 coins are perfectly fine. It's up to the individual. DMPL's aren't exactly scarce, but you do have to look for them, and again, this is where I would suggest that you view the coin inhand rather than from photos. Just because it says DMPL on the insert doesn't mean that it can't be a poor example. There are many DMPL's that have been repolished, and the polishing lines that are imparted to the coin can be distracting to some collectors. I have DMPL's in grades MS63 and up, and the MS63's really leave something to be desired. Many of them have distracting marks in the fields where you want to see nice deep mirrors. I can live with some where the distracting marks are on the devices, but I prefer clean fields. Whenever I can afford it, I would rather have MS64's or better. Chris
I'm sure you're aware of this, but only a very small percentage of the CC Morgans were encased in GSA holders, so most are "free" from casings. Guy
Thank you for the reply. Why do you prefer the GSA holders? Do they retain value better, or is it just that you like them better? Please go into some detail as to what the difference is between MS63 and 64. I have looked at a few in hand and do not notice much difference. Perhaps it is simply because I haven't looked at enough examples. Would you personally spend the extra to get a 64 over a 63? I am not looking to buy and turn profit, but in the event that I do sell some in the future it would be nice to at least not lose money. I'm just trying to feel things out a bit. I do not mind spending money on a well deserved item, but I doubt that I will spend more than $2k on a single Morgan anytime soon. I do understand that this means I will not get any of the main key dates, but I am ok with that for now. Luckily for me, I'm not a fan of "toned" coins in general so I will not be spending huge premiums on those items.
While I was typing, cpm9ball seemed to answer my question about 63 vs 64, so thank you. That was what I was looking for.
I think what the OP meant was if you own a GSA Morgan, would you prefer to have it graded in the original case ala NGC or cracked out and graded ala PCGS? Chris
Correct. I want a GSA Morgan (preferably a CC) just to have one, but I was not sure if it was better in the long run to have it cracked out or leave as is. On a side note, I found a 1893-S in (correction, G4) for $2750 locally. Should I go ahead with this purchase? I really don't want to shell out that kind of cash for such a poor condition coin, but I understand the rarity. I'm just not sure on that one yet.
I have not seen it yet (I'm at work), but have been told that it is slabbed by PCGS. I will probably go look at it tonight after work.
Good advice. I wouldn't agree that NGC grading is more consistent than PCGS. My experience is the opposite. But I don't mean to start a religious war. Everyone has a right to their opinions and preferences. $2750 is not a great price for a G4 '93-S. You can do better. But perhaps it's undergraded or especially handsome. Like the 1909-S VDB and other keys, the 1893-S is not rare. Scarce, perhaps. You'll find at least several to choose from at most coin shows. Lance.
I will most likely pass on it, then. I will still go check it out, but I will try to hold out for one that is a bit better shape I think. So, if the 93-s is not "rare", which Morgan(s) would be considered "rare" if any?
Rarity is a very misused word. Relatively speaking, few coins are rare. Hard to find ones are probably better called scarce. In the coin collectors' world there are a few prominent scales. Most often we use the Sheldon one. R1 Common, readily available R2 Less common - Available at most shows, but in limited quantity R3 Scarce - somewhat difficult to find, only a few likely at larger shows R4 Very scarce - may or may not find at larger shows/auctions R5 Rare - unlikely more than 5 at shows or auctions each year R6 Very rare - Almost never seen, only one may be offered for sale in a year’s time R7 Prohibitively rare - one may be offered for sale once every few years R8 Unique, or nearly so Notice the word "rare" isn't used until R5. "Conditional rarities" is another matter. These can be common or scarce coins that are exceptional for their preserved state. You can buy an '84-S AU Morgan for $500, let's say. But at MS65 it may cost a quarter million dollars due to its conditional rarity. The '84-S, however, is not a rare coin. Maybe it's better to just ask about "keys". Scarce or less common, pricey coins important to a series. The '93-S is a key to the Morgan series. There are far fewer '93-S Morgans than the many thousands or millions of other Morgans and that is why it is expensive in even low grade. It's just not rare. Lance.
I prefer to by raw Morgans; however, if I can't find something I like that's raw, I'll buy a slabbed specimen and crack it out, place it in a 2x2, then in a binder.
This is the Sheldon rarity scale - R-1 Common R-2 Not So Common R-3 Scarce R-4 Very Scarce (population est at 76-200) R-5 Rare (31-75) R-6 Very Rare (13-30) R-7 Extremely rare (4-12) R-8 Unique or Nearly So (1,2 or 3) I actually prefer this scale when talking about US coins as it puts a better perspective on it I think - The Universal Rarity Scale by Q. David Bowers URS-0 None known URS-1 1 known, unique URS-2 2 known URS-3 3 or 4 known URS-4 5 to 8 known URS-5 9 to 16 known URS-6 17 to 32 known URS-7 33 to 64 known URS-8 65 to 125 known URS-9 126 to 250 known URS-10 251 to 500 known URS-11 501 to 1,000 known URS-12 1,001 to 2,000 known URS-13 2,001 to 4,000 known URS-14 4,001 to 8,000 known URS-15 8,001 to 16,000 known URS-16 16,001 to 32,000 known URS-17 32,001 to 65,000 known URS-18 65,001 to 125,000 known URS-19 125,001 to 250,000 known URS-20 250,001 to 500,000 known Now that said there are many other rarity scales as well. And people use them incorrectly, sometimes even in a misleading manner when they are trying to describe a coin that is for sale. For it is all too easy to claim a given coin is an R3 or an R5, but unless they state specifically which rarity scale they are using, then you really don't know how scarce the coin may, or may not be. In looking at the two scales above, that becomes obvious.
This is a PCGS MS65 Morgan I bought about 1 year ago for $178 on ebay. I love the MS65's as, to my eye, they can look almost perfect without the very steep price tag the MS66's demand. However, not all slabbed coins in the same grade look the same, so you need to be selective. Only buy coins off the internet if there is a solid return policy, as sometimes photos can be enhanced. MS64's typically have only a few marks and nicks and usually are very nice looking in general. MS63's can have a lot of bag marks and nicks, and can at times, look very torn up even though they are mint state. I agree with the above posters to watch the price difference between grades and buy the grade just below the big price jump. MS65 = Looks near perfect! MS64 = A few bag marks and nicks MS63 = Many more bag marks and nicks By the way, ignore the toning on the MS63 and MS64 above, as that has nothing to do with the grade assigned. Toning, depending on it's appeal, (along with mirrored proof-like surfaces) can add slight to sometimes very large premiums to the coin unrelated to the numeric grade.
Morgan Dollars are one of the most collected coins in the world and for good reason. They are large and are made of silver and have stunning art work IMO. I collect them with a modest budget so I go with slabbed MS-63 coins from PCGS. If you look you can find a very attractive MS-63 coin but patience and shopping is the key. Almost all the dates and mints of the Morgan dollar can be had in an MS grade simply due to the coins fate in history. Yes some dates are key and the Carson coins are the ones you will have to save for. The Morgan dollar has some of the most devoted followers and specialized collectors of any coinage to date. Vams, Toners, Grades, Mints, Rarities you name it Morgan collectors got it. Buy the grade you can afford and the coin you like in that grade. I choose PCGS over NGC simply because I like the presentation of my Morgans in the clear PCGS slabs and I like there website (buy their grade only if you agree with it and like the coin). Fakes abound so do your homework and stick to credibale dealers and grading services. I have very much enjoyed all of the good info in this thread. Happy Hunting
