First off hello everyone. My family has always been a big currency collector (we have currency ranging from the silver pennies to Confederate notes). I've always had an interest for currency collecting but never really took a liking to it. That however does not stop me from grabbing a good purchase when I see it. I just got back from a trip to London and while there I came across a lone merchant at an open air market type of place where people sell antiques, random crap, skills, etc that range from vintage clothing to custom wood engravings. Well as I was browsing the stalls I came across a man who sold items that were either silver or could be pawned off as silver to someone who didn't know better. I saw a small box with some coins and instantly knew I had found a present for my father. After a short talk I bought all his American silver dollars that he had; a total of 7 (A 1971 Eisenhower, two 1922 Liberty Dollars, three silver dollars from 1876 in almost perfect condition, and an 1804 silver dollar). It is this later coin that peaked my interest enough for me to buy them all. Anyways, as I got home I decided to look up their worths and of course I couldn't help but see the "one of the rarest and most unique coins" talk that you see associated with them. I wanted to get an opinion on it before I took it in to be appraised. Here is a picture of said coin: I'm sorry if it is hard to make out. I left it at my father's house and just took a quick snap so I could reference it as I looked on the internet. I automatically assume it's a fake because I am not lucky enough to find something of any value like that. Any ideas or information on it? I can also get some pictures of the other silver dollars if you would like, but this coin in particular is the one of interest. Also, a quick heads up on the value of the three very fine quality 1876 silver dollars would be nice. All lettering is intact on them and all lines are near perfect, and aside from a small ding on the rim of one (it looks almost like one coin was dropped from waist height and landed perpindicular to it, so it's a small ding but nothing else) they are perfect with all lines and lettering crisp including the folds in her dress. Any information on this will be GREATLY appreciated. Jacob EDITED: I would also like to mention that the coin is minted that way. I did not rotate the coin as I flipped it over, the reverse side is offset at that angle. Also the coin is the same diameter as the other American silver dollars and has the grooved rim like the other silver dollars. When held in a stack it is nearly impossible to tell the difference between them just by the rim.
I'm 100% sure that it is a fake. As for the 1876 Dollar....it too could be fake....post photos of the other coins....all if you want and we can help more.....as we can't help with value untill we know the grade and we must see photos to know the grade. Sorry this coin turned out to be fake.....the date and letters are all wrong. Speedy
What do you mean the date and letters are all wrong? I assume you mean that the lettering is not the proper lettering for the year, but from all the pictures I have been looking at I can't see a difference between the one I have and the ones I have seen in pictures, aside from some having wron numbers that look more round. I can see how the lettering on mine appear to be thinner in general, but then there is this picture that looks remarkably close to it http://www.coinfacts.com/silver_dollars/1804_dollars/mint_1804_silver_dollar_class2.htm Not questioning your judgment as I too assumed it was a fake, I am just curious as to what in particular makes it stick out so poorly as a fake. As for the others I will post pictures next time I get over to my Dad's house (maybe a day or two) though I would assume that if one is a fake they all are. No big deal, you gamble and some you win and some you lose. What would be the value of this if it is a fake (I would assume the value of the silver alone and nothing else).
For the date the numbers are smaller and not the same type....for the letters....the type is smaller and also the stars....they are alot smaller on this fake than on a real on. Same thing on the back....look at the real on...see how the letters almost go from the RIM to the detail around the eagle...on yours they are more centered and smaller..... Also the point that it is rotated points to the fact that it is fake. Speedy
Ah yes, I can see what you mean about the placement of the letters. On mine it also appears the date is more flat where as one the original it is more arced and follows the contour of the rim more closely. I never did have the ability to see the small stuff like that very well without being pointed to it, which is one of the reasons I never picked up coin collecting like some of my other brothers or my father. I should be heading over to his house later tomorrow so probably late tomorrow or the following day I can get some pictures of the other ones up. Thanks for the input.
Welcome to the forum. Sorry this coin turned out to be a fake. What a treasure it would have been to find a real one at a fleamarket type bazzare. Still, even being a fake, since most of us could never afford a real one, nice find
I don't know for sure but I wouldn't think these would be faked.....they could be but I doubt it. Speedy
If the missing star is the one on the right side above the eagle, it IS there but it has been flattened down or worn smooth. Either or, you can make it out and slightly feel it on the real coin, it just didn't show up in the picture very well. As for the arrows, they may also be there, but the smoothed part of the coin was the upper right side, not the lower left and I don't recall looking at that part very closely like I did at the stars, so when I see it again I will have to look closer. Is this fake worth anything at all? I mean it's worth the silver but is it even worth putting in a coin collection, even if marked as a fake, but of it's just curio nature?
knowing its a fake.. it worth as much as you make it. If you want to keep it knowing you willprobably never get a real one, then its worth something. If the thought of the fake coin disgusts you becasue it is a fake, then it is worth less to you. Being a fake, its worth is what you make it ... IMHO of course
Being a fake its more than likely not even made out of silver.....but I have sold fakes before for a nice bit of money.....I sold 2 fake cents for about 4-6 dollars each....I would say that you might get $10 out of such a fake as you have. Speedy
Guys, you're working at this too hard! He said that it has a reeded edge: A genuine 1804 dollar would have a lettered edge (I believe the Smithsonian example is unique in that it has a plain edge). This alone guarantees that the coin is fake. NeoWierd-a plain edged coin is smooth on the rim (like a US cent or Nickel coin), a reeded edge coin is what you have (and most modern US coins are), and a lettered edge coin has writing inscribed on the rim of the coin (if your 1804 were genuine then it would have a smooth edge with the inscription "HUNDRED CENTS ONE DOLLAR OR UNIT" pressed into it). The other way that we know that your coin is a fake is because all 15 originals are accounted for. There simply aren't any still waiting to be "found". It is very likely that the 1971 dollar is genuine. This coin was minted with no actual silver content (it is nostly copper that is mixed with some nickel). It is worth about $1. The 1922 is a rather common date of the peace design and they contain just over 3/4 of an ounce of silver each, if they are genuine (which is likely). unless they are as nice as the day they were minted it is likely that they are worth $10-$15 each. The 1876 "trade dollars" are very commonly counterfeited, unfortunately. Based on the reputation that the person you bought from has (based on the fact that he sold an 1804 dollar as genuine) he is either a scam artist or counterfeiter himself, or he has no knowledge of coins and wouldn't recognize a fake coin under any circumstances. It is very likely these coins are not genuine either. Please post photos of the trade dollars. We will be unable to absolutely guarantee their authenticity, but if they are poorly made counterfeits, then we will be able to save you the cost of professional authentication. P.S. There are a good number of collectors who collect fakes and they may be intereested inowning your coins. On eBay these types of counterfeit 1804 dollars usually sell for $5-$10.
Ah....but TCT....I think it is always a good idea to post and decided on what you can see...not hearsay facts...I'm pretty sure it does have a plain edge but it is always best to point out the detail that can be seen by the photo. BTW--The total mintage is 19,570....not just 15 Speedy
but Speedy, it's not hearsay, he specifically told us that his coin has a reeded edge! yes, however, as I am sure you know, all of those 19,570 coins that were minted during 1804 (and were therefore counted in the 1804 production figures) were dated 1803. The class I 1804's were made during the 1830s for presentation sets and the class II's and III's were made later for collectors and special favorites of the mint during the suceeding decades. There are only 15 1804 dollars in existance.
Ah....you must not have read Police Books when you were younger....hearsay is something you heard from someone else....and hearsay would also come into fact if you didn't have either photo or somekind of proof that would back it up As I said....I'm sure it has a reeded edge.... Nope---I haven't studied the 1804 Dollar yet....since I don't collect dollars and also since I'll never own one of these I'll try to get around to that this year Speedy
