Collectorsinternet.com

RaceBannon: nice. thank you. this forum is awesome. everyone is very kind and helpful and informative.

Question: If I were to come to an agreement with him for a partial refund for some of the coins, what would be the best way to legitimize it so that I have no worries about whether or not he will give me what we agree upon once he receives the coins?

Just an email? Seems like it would be so easy to just keep the coins and not pay me...as you said RaceBannon, I could follow your advice...but at this point I need to focus on a way to legitimize an agreement for a refund...any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

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I had never heard of this company before today. Sorry you are having problems.

Not trying to take sides, but everyone grades different. You didn't follow their rules to return within the time frame and in their original holder.

"All items carry a 14 day return privilege, after you receive them, and a written lifetime guarantee to grade and authenticity." Seems pretty simple to understand. ****.... I can offer you a written lifetime guarantee to grade. And i have never seen the coins.

They never guaranteed a specific grade. One person may grade it a MS65 and someone else may say it is a MS63

Take it all as a lesson learned and never buy from this dealer again.

 

It sounded to me that it implied it will grade as advertised, but definitely the cleaned coin didn't "grade!"

 

I kind of see your pointonejinx, but he advertised them as" 10 Different Gem BU MS64 to Superb BU MS66 Morgans with BEAUTIFUL LUSTROUS Multi-colored TONING."

Tha accompanied with a lifetime guarantee to grade, don't you think it implies that its a guarantee to grade to 64 minumum? Ladies First, I think thats how most people see it, which would basically make it a breach of contract to not honor the guarantee.

 

Maybe this was answered before but where's the "in writing?" It sounded like a document you were going to get with the coins.

 

As far as the cleaned coin, grading by ANA standards refers to many factors, but it doesn't cancel the coin grade if cleaned, as does PCGS, NGC, or even the non-ANA company called ANACS when they do not label the grade, due to perceived cleaning. The company didn't claim their grade would hold up against PCGS or other TPG. In fact I don't think any of the companies featured in coin world would either. Since you did remove the coins from their holder, and pass the inspection period, I think if it goes to court, one would have to prove that their guarantee included professional grading, which is not the standard for any coin company that I am aware. This would be difficult. If you have legal service, please consult before further posting, as a misunderstanding on your part could be very expensive. I would try to arrange a partial refund myself. IMO. Best of luck.

Jim

 

Have you checked to see if Google has a cashed version of their site showing the guarantee before they altered it? Just something that might bolster your claims with Visa or if it becomes a civil suit.

 

Good points, Jim. I didn't know ANACS wasn't an ANA company. Somehow I thought the opposite, maybe because there's an ANA in the ANACS acronym.

It sounds like there is no way a coin wouldn't "grade." Did they mean it's guaranteed to fit somewhere on a scale from 1-70? Even a counterfeit coin can have its quality "graded."

 

Candor, I have not done that. Could you teach me how to do that? It could be very helpful.
Desert Gem and Ladies First: thank you for pointing those things out. I think the standard used would have to be the professional grading companies, as there are some grading companies out there who shouldn't even be averaged in. So who else to look for but the top 3? I think a court of law would find that that general standard for grading is 3 very well known companiesm but I could be wrong.
In actuality, I would still like to know how to do that, Candor, but I have been emailing with collectorsinternet tirelessly all last night and have worked out a deal that pleases me very much. I have to thank everyone on here who encouraged me not to give up. The only thing is, they said they were going to send me a check last night and they sent me a tracking number but this morning, the track/confirm number still just says that the label was printed, not that a postal worker had scanned it. I'm really hoping that the tracking number they sent me for the check they were sending me is going to actually happen. If it does, I will come back on here and give all the final details. But first the check has to get here instead of this being an unfulfilled promise. I would like to pos t a few pictures on here of one of the coins they sent me which I thought was pretty nice. But everyones opinion is welcome as to whether thi s coin could possibly have been a BU 64-66 coin. And then, in a little while, I'll come back on and say what PCGS actually graded it. Thanks!

 

Both look AU to me.

 

I would have to re-read the book, but I don't think that a counterfeit would be a coin anyway, so any grade would be moot. The book does allow to reduce the grade level to compensate for cleaning, with cleaned as a modifier. Sometimes whether a coin is cleaned or not is at best an opinion. TPG companies do not have to justify their decision as it is like the opinion as to whether toning is natural or artificial.

IMO,

Jim

 

True. I wonder whose opinion a court would accept as to whether a coin was counterfeit; a TPG?

JF- I'm looking forward to hearing about the deal. Last week I got a package and the tracking number still says the PO only got the electronic notice so I wouldn't worry...yet!

PS: In truth, I would totally worry; I just don't advise you to!

 

Originally ANACS did mean American Numismatic Association Certification Service, and it was owned by the ANA. But the ANA sold the company to Amos Press in 1990 and it has had two other owners since then (They are on their fourth owner and sixth location so far.)

Been looking but so far I haven't found a cached page showing the guarantee before 4/24/11 and it had the modified version. Sorry I tried.

 

Thank you LF. Oddly enough (to me at least) the tracking info got updated on Sunday. That makes no sense to me at all because I thought it was automatically updated when it gets scanned and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have gotten scanned on a Sunday. Anyhow, it says it was processed in Santa Clarita, CA or something like that, and on Sat it only said the USPS has been notified that tracking number blah blah has been created...you know that message. So now, it looks like the check is on the way.

I feel simply awful about this whole situation but at no time do I think I was in the wrong. They used VERY VERY VERY stron arm tactics to get me to go away and thanks to the responses on here to my post, I stood my ground and it looks like I will be compensated. Now I am even getting emails from their partners, Bevery Hills Coin Club, threatening me and calling me names and stuff. The whole thing is really sad. A business should keep business replies to a minimum, detailing the information that the customer needs. Instead, I get HUGE earfuls about how GIANT their company is and about how great they are and what a pest I am. I am keeping it very light here. They said and threatened some pretty awful things. All because they wanted me to go away, and they didn't want to live up to their refund policy which was posted on their website when I made the purchase. The refund policy that they subsequenty changed after I called them out on it. It's so funny, if they were as large as they keep telling me they are in their emails, why would they care if I just sent them the 17 coins back and they sent me a refund. Great Southern Coin will give you 6 MONTHS and allow a refund with no questions asked. A consumer like me is SO APPRECIATIVE of such a policy. EVERYONE knows that grading is subjective, but Great Southern knows that a customer comes first, that the majority of customers are satisfied, and that if they're not satisfied, it is not worth their time or effort to argue with them. But that is actually all besides the point. Collectorsinternet.com actually had a refund policy that was posted on the internet saying they guarantee the coins to grade (obviously people on here have argued what that could actually mean, but legally speaking, courts don't allow such sneaky wording. If a sentence's general meaning sounds like it means that they guarantee that the coins they're advertising would generally meet such a standard, than thats what the sentence means.) If a coin couldn't even be in the same ballpark as a "Gem uncirculated 64-66", then why should a company be allowed to sell it as such? There is a whole division of of law contained in the U.C.C. that spells out these kind of things.

In any case, for those of you who helped support me and made me feel like I have friends in the coin community out there and gave me advice and encouragement, I SINCERELY thank you. For everyone else who commented, I also thank you for your opinions.

BTW the coin pics I posted above was one of the coins that I was sold that was supposed to be Gem Uncirculated 64-66. PCGS graded it AU 58. I thought that was a little low, but it seems the readers here agree. Who knows what the other grading companies would have graded it. I can't spend hundreds of dollars having them graded (unless we could all put together some sort of research project!!!!!! where we contribute to a fund that supports the sending in and grading of many different kinds of coins and show what a subjective standard it actually is. I know this has been done before, and I know PCGS was sued by the FCC in what, the early 90's or something, but a new study would be awesome. These grading companies have WAY too much of a stranglehold on the community. If a coin is so rare that there are only, say 15 out there, and the actual person grading it owns one, they are obviously going to grade it tougher than should be. That's obviously just one minor example of why the grading companies are too political and not honest enough.)

I have another question which I should probably just start a new thread. I just went to an estate auction and bought a 1983 no S dime proof set. I bought it thinking I will keep it for many many years, which I very likely will, but my PCGS membership is only good for a year. So is it wise to send in the dime to be graded? It probably depends on what the dime would grade, but I could never tell the difference between a 65 or 66-70 coin. Also, if I was going to take the dime out and send it in, how would I even get it out of the case to do do? Thanks..

 

It is funny you posted AU-58 because that was going to be my exact guess once I got to the bottom of the page, The reason it got that grade is because there is noticeable wear on the very tip of the left wing, which is one of the grading standard spots for this coin. It got 58 because that is the highest grade it could get with any amount of wear and besides that tiny spot of wear I think the coin looks beautiful. But alas wear is wear and that makes AU-58 the highest grade it could obtain IMO.

 

Man dctjr80, I wish I had an eye for grading like you. I'm going to compare my other, more highly graded coins with that one with an eye towards the upper part of left wing. Thank you. Thats the upper part of the left wing as you face it correct?

 

When you're trying to distinguish between AU and MS, especially on Morgans, the main thing to look for is luster breaks. Morgans have a natural shine and cartwheel (term used to describe how light bounces off a MS coin) that is impaired when circulated. You spot breaks in the luster, good chance it's AU and not MS.

 

Merc- Thank you. What about when the Morgans are toned with all kinds of colors? Does that make it harded to see the cartwheel? Does merc mean you're a mercury dime enthusiast? If so, maybe you could offer your opinion on an "error" merc dime that I have. The mintmark is way out of place, coming within less than a half millimeter from touching the olive branches on the left side of the fasces (If I have my terminolgy correct). It is ebay item number 300550864630 if you get a chance. You can use the zoom feature to get a better look what I'm talking about.

 

Since the mintmark was applied to the die by hand, large leeway is given for the placement , and what he is calling tilt. If the mm actually cut into a leaf , it would be a minor increase in value, as far as I am concerned. Sideways, more so, but like this I would only offer the price of the regular date/condition.

Jim

 

Interesting. I can't believe the mintmark was applied by hand! Is it like that with all coins? It's hard to tell whether its actually into the leaf or not. Thanks