Charmy's SANTA CLARA Show Report (with lots of pics)!

I left Thursday morning and drove the 6 hours to the show, which opened to dealers yesterday at noon, though I neglected to notice they had changed the set up time from 2:00 pm as it had been in previous years so I got there around 3:00 pm due to some accidents in the L.A. area. It was a nice relaxing set up day, opened up a nice bottle of wine, did some shopping around, then had a wonderful dinner and a great bottle of 2003 Zinfandel at the Italian restaurant in the Hyatt. Here's what the restaurant looked like before it got crowded - it's very trendy with a sparse but delicious menu.



I was pretty tired so i just went back to my room and watched a movie (Conviction with Hillary Swank).

Friday morning took a while for the show to get going, it seemed like the public sort of meandered in but soon the floor began to have the usual show buzz.

Wei took this photo because he said I should have at least ONE photo that wasn't blurry!




Several CU forum members stopped by and chatted - Obiwan, 19Lyds, Wei to name a few. I got this photo of Lance/lkeigwin at the snack bar.



Here are more photos I took today around the show...

More usual suspects...






The CBS news crew was here at the show filming and interviewing some of the bullion dealers due to the huge increase in gold and silver. Here is a shot of their equipment (couldn't find the crew, they must ave gone out for lunch)


And here is the "Pirate's Cove" where all the kids will gather on Saturday for the treasure hunt


These are some of those very old coin books that I recently acquired and have gotten some interest. The smallr books are Wayte Ramond and the tall album book is Meghrig & Sons and is very hard to find.


And here was my very unique purchase I made on Saturday! It's a set of very cool beautiful old Sterling makeup brushes in a velvet case!



As you can see I do like girly things! As a matter of fact, Gene Bruder's wife was selling these beautiful crystal beaded lanyards so the wives and women dealers can hang their badges and loupes on something pretty rather than a standard (usually bulky looking) show lanyard. I bought two black and gold ones that are just like jewelry and I love them!



As for my usual wine fest, yesterday we had a very nice 2008 Bogle cab and on Thursday we had a tasty 2008 La Creme Pinot. On Sagturdsay, I opened a Foggy Valley Pinot which was very good. At the Bay 101 casino (where I did quite well) on Friday night I had a house cab while playing cards, however, it was only tolerable.

On Saturday the show gradually filled up, then died down by mid-afternoon. Sales were slow, but I did pick up a few coins for inventory but nothing really special. I found these cool penny jigsaw puzzles from a guy and have been selling a few of them. I think they're pretty cool and people find them very challenging.


Also, another CU forum member Obiwan Canoli, who told me he hadn't yet appeared on my reports, and let me take his photo!


Also on Saturday, I finally picked up a beautiful coin for my own collection - it's a stunningly toned Pop 1 1956 Lincoln, PCGS MS67 RB. Another CU forum member, Lance, brought it by to show me, and I asked him if it was for sale. He said it was, and was happy to see it go to a good home. Here are some photos (that don't do the coin any justice) that I took with my camera phone - of course, I'll have Todd photograph it and post those later.



I also got on consignment a beautiful VF-AU Indian cent set - wow! They're all really pretty pieces! I'll have to get photos of that too! in the meantime, here are some of my not-so-good photos of this set.




This same customer also gave me as a gift a beautiful brand new Capital Plastics holder for Indian cents!


And yet another customer gave me this really pretty stained glass box with some yummy candy (that I'm trying to stay far away from!). Last year, he gave me a really pretty tray made out of a melted wine bottle.


Well, it's a very quiet Sunday morning, the public is very sparse, so i'll be packing up as soon as I post this. Yesterday was decent, but overall sales were still slow. I did see Angel Dee's toned Buffalo nickels, and they are quite pretty. He should do quite well selling them.

The best part about this show actually has been seeing some of my regular customers whom I only see a couple times a year, as well as all the forum members who stop by. And even though I really like the Santa Clara show and enjoy coming up to this area, as a result of this show slowing down, I will definitely be attending the Baltimore show in November instead of this one (since they are on the exact same dates this year).

So, Saturday night after the show, Glen/PonyExpress and I headed back to Bay 101 for some more poker. Another dealer Greg also met us there. Here's the front of the casino and the entrance to the poker room (I had to be slick about taking pictures in there since they don't usually allow people to take photos).





Here's Glen and Greg who ended up sitting on either side of me.



So, about a couple hours into our 6-12 game, I was dealt pocket 7's and the flop came 10-7-7. My heart is beating a mile a minute, but of course I slow play my hand and checked. Another guy bets, so I just call, and a couple people drop out. Another 10 comes on the turn, so the guy bets again, and I raise, he calls. Then comes a J I think (can't really remember the last card). The guy bets, I raise, he re-raises, I re-raise and this kept going about 6-7 times. The pot was at least $450, when the other guy was finally all-in. I'm sure you can guess what he had! Yep, pocket 10's! :Q

My heart starts beating even faster and I got even more excited because I think I just won the bad beat jackpot! Usually, if Aces full of 10's or better gets beat, everyone at the table splits a big jackpot, and the one with the losing hand gets the biggest percentage. I was whooping and hooting with my hands pumping in the air.... when I was quickly told there was no bad beat jackpot at this casino!!! UGGGGGGHH! I couldn't believe it! WOW! What a letdown. Oh well, easy come, easy go. But at least by the time I left, the guy who won ended up losing most of his chips, while I still had a few trays full of chips, so that was my only consolation to such a horrible bad beat!





So this morning after a couple very slow hours at the show, I packed up, loaded everything into the car, and drove that long 6-hour drive home but at least I got to finish listening to a great Book on CD - Nicholas Spark's latest book "Safe Haven."

Since I'm taking a few weeks off, I won't be doing Central States, so I'll have to look forward to reading someone else's show report!

Now I'm home, safe and sound, tired and can't wait to sleep in my own bed (with my cuddly hubby), taking it easy tomorrow, and looking forward to spending Easter weekend out at Lake Havasu for a few days of rest and relaxation!

 

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sound like fun

 

Wow, looks like you had a fun weekend. That 1956 Lincoln cent you purchased at the show is gorgeous. MS-67 RB! I can't imagine that there are any examples of that date graded higher than that. Thanks for sharing your coinshow experience with us.

 

That was a good show. Picked up an NGC roosy dime planchet and PCGS VF-30 1835 half cent. Compared to the majority of coins I see that other members buy at shows or stores, it isn't much but I'm 14 so it's not bad.

 

Another great tale!

 

The 1956 Lincoln penny posted above is a Pop 1, meaning that PCGS hasn't graded any other 1956 Lincolns in this grade. It is also my understanding that for some reason PCGS will no longer designate RB copper in MS67.

It's a stunning coin! Todd took a photo of this coin at the Santa Clara show so I will post it when it is available.

 

Someone set forth an explanation that it was due to the amount of cupric oxidation on the surface of an RB coin likely rendering the coin BN in years to come.. Can't stop the reaction unless the coin is encased in an inert gas??? ....... and since the grade guarantee change for copper, that they didn't want any 67BN coins in population So, the only new 67RB's in the future, will be from grade guarantees of 67RD that no longer qualify as Red???

Kind of makes sense.

What's cool - is in theory, that a 67Red that has turned in the holder could then become a top pop RB coin!

Another slick way to encourage regrades and get bad coins out of the holders they should no longer be in???? (keep pops low)?

I would imagine that high grade pop 1 in what ever color, are market driven and are more valuable than price guides indicate - ahem... ifeelill on 420

On the other hand, I doubt that coins that have turned in the holder will have the colors that your 56 does, so therefore not as appealing/desirable=valuable?

 

5dollar, good for you! I'm glad you enjoyed the show and was able to find a couple things for your collection.

 

HAHAHAHA...unreal...I feel sorry for that poor chap.

Thanks for the report, always fun reading. :smile

 

I do not think I am missing anything here - the "poor chap" you are feeling sorry for was Charmy!

 

Yep, I think Thad got a little confused. I was definitely the POOR chap!

 

I had a real good show. Came home with 5 PL and 2 DMPL's but none I really needed for my set. Now the work of editing photos begins.....

 

Then why are you perusing chat rooms instead of working on my coin photos?!?

 

I believe a 67RD that toned and required a RB designation would be downgraded by PCGS to 66RB. PCGS seems averse to certify copper above 66 as anything but RD, according to one of the founders. NGC is okay with loftier grades and may not feel the same.

That '56 I sold Charmy is a pop 1/0. If it were red and not red brown it would sell for something in excess of $4,000.

It's in good hands now. It didn't fit my set but is perfect for The Penny Lady's collection.
Lance.

 

Now I am really baffled.. I know that they won't guarantee color on copper anymore. Then what is the grade guarantee they have in place. I was thinking about submitting a 67RD I have that is less Red than some 66RB's I have. (I want a 67RB for the VDB set I have)

If what you are saying is the case. Is this where they provide a monetary difference as part of their guarantee? What would the compensation be? I am really confused. From what I am surmising - is that they would pay the price guide difference of a 67RD and 66RD or 66RB or what?

Someone straighten me out here.

I need to go read their guarantee again. brb

 

PCGS MS67RB Lincoln Wheat Cents are almost always stunning! To date, PCGS has certified only 62 wheat cents at the MS67RB grade!!! That is only 62 coins out of nearly 200,000 wheat cents certified by PCGS to date! The rarity of an MS67RB wheat cent is further highlighted in that more than half of them are from two dates; the 1939-S (pop 11 in MS67RB) and the 1941-D (pop 24 in MS67RB).

While they are very hesitant to issue the MS67RB grade, it is still used by PCGS. Just in the past few years, the total pop of MS67RB wheat cents at PCGS has more than doubled (pop 29 as of 3/2007; up to 61 as of 10/2010; and now up to pop 62 today). All three 1909 VDB cents in PCGS MS67RB have been certified within the past two years. There's a good thread over on the CU forum which discusses the MS67RB grade in connection with wheat cents and has lots of pics too:

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=572404

I would bet almost anything that a 67RD or 67RB would never downgrade to an MS67BN if it turned in the PCGS holder... to date PCGS has NEVER graded a Lincoln wheat cent with a grade of MS67BN. After 25+ years in business, it is unlikely that will change.

I believe what Lance says is correct. Most likely a 67RD which turns in the holder will not only lose the color designation, but would also be downgraded to a 66 or even 65. When looking at lots of Lincoln Cents, the surface quality of many MS65RB coins equals that of MS66RD examples. Similarly, MS66RB coins have the surfaces and luster of MS67RD examples. It is clear that original red color does bump up the grade of Lincoln wheat cents at PCGS... surely it should bump down the numerical grades if that color turns over time.

In looking at lots and lots of wheat cents (though I wouldn't hold myself out to be an expert), it seems that when you put the color of the coin aside, an MS68RD coin is roughly equal to an MS67RB and roughly equal to an MS66BN. That is, when looking just at the strike and surface details/lack of hits an MS68RD coin is equal to an MS67RB and they're both equal to an MS66BN. Of course, the original RD color bumps the numerical grade.

This is demonstrated in the PCGS pop reports. Here's a breakdown of the total wheat cents graded in MS66, MS67 & MS68:

Brown: 69; 0; 0
Red-Brown: 1094; 62; 0
Red: 101,633; 10,343; 66

The popluations of MS68RD, MS67RB and MS66BN coins are almost equal to one another. Those coins are clearly the best of the best when it comes to strike and overall details of the coins and clearly represent coins of nearly perfect quality. The only difference between them is the original color which bumps up the numerical grade.

The question which hasn't been answered to my knowledge by PCGS is how much of the PCGS grading guarantee remains as it relates to copper coins since PCGS dropped the color guarantee on copper in 2010. Sure, if you bought your copper coins before 2010, the full guarantee still applies to you.

But, when EyeEatWheaties buys his MS67RD in 2011 and that later turns RB or BN what is the result??? As discussed above, it is most likely that a 67RD wouldn't just get regraded as 67RB... and definitely wouldn't get a 67BN since that grade has never been used by PCGS for a wheat cent.

Instead, the coin should probably be regraded between 65BN-66RB. In this case, PCGS surely wouldn't cover the owner for the change of color, but would they still cover the drop in numerical grade under their grading guarantee??? Remember, PCGS just no longer covers the color designation, they still guarantee the grade of the coin. Or, would PCGS loosen their grading standards on high grade RB and BN coins and give the coin (although most likely undeserving) the 67RB or 67BN grade in order to avoid dropping the numerical grading and a payout under the grading guarantee???

Like I said, I don't know of anyone buying RD copper after 2010 and submitting under the grade guarantee...

 

Excellent summary, Illini. Nice work.

I was a little surprised to see 62 67RB wheaties. Last I checked it was far less. Must have been a few years ago when I had several. After selling the '56 to Charmy I am down to just one. But I am glad to learn that the word I got about an unwillingness to grade more 67RB's is wrong. HRH was speaking from emotion, I guess.

Very interesting questions you raise about how the PCGS copper guarantee will play out. With only an exception or two my registry set was assembled prior to 2010 so I still feel warm and fuzzy. But for RD copper bought or graded after 12/31/09 that later "turns" and merits RB, I suspect PCGS may soften some of their principles in order to maintain the numeric grade and avoid a buy-back.

We may see more highly graded RB's after all.

I don't feel that this is just, but for PCGS to do otherwise is tantamount to having a copper color guarantee again.

The price bump, when dropping from 67 to 66 let's say, is often huge. A PCGS 66RD '56 Lincoln can be had for $75. A 67RD, around $4,000. Similar prices are cited for all 1950's Philly Lincolns. There are many more examples, as you know.
Lance.

 

So here's Todd's wondeful photo of this beautiful 1956 Lincoln cent...

 

I would not have expected anything less for a 67. I have never seen so much green on a Lincoln.

 

Thanks for sharing. I miss the show circuit but not the huge overhead expenses of table fees, travel, and then brutal competetion with 100 or so other dealers in the room with very little public coming in not to mention my time. My ebay store handles a lot of things automatically for me with very little fixed cost up front vs a show. I have found CraigsList a good place to solicit potential sellers. Consequently my goal has been to reduce fixed overhead costs considerably.

Numismatic coins essentially have been a losing proposition the last couple of decades unless your extremely on target or can buy them right. It must be tough to recoup all those hefty show expenses. I do feel for show dealers trying to retail to people who only want to pay sheet. It takes cost plus about 40% to make it in the coin biz. Silver has been the real winner. I find your inventory very impressive and admire your tenacity to commit everything to a specialized area.