Is it wrong to rip off a coin dealer, when he is not at store.

It's the dealers responsibility to himself to keep his prices current. If he does not then I say buy it all... He got what he marked it as... you got a good deal... end of story. Don't feel bad cause he hosed himself.

This past weekend I was at a small local show where a part time dealer was set up. Some of his marked prices on his coins were cheap.... some even %10 less then melt.... I first started off asking "You know these are a little back of silver are these prices still good?" He responded with "Yeah, I don't have the time to change them so that's fine" So I proceeded to buy every silver dollar he had. By him not wanting to take the time to change his 2x2's he gave away several hundred dollars.

This antique mall dealer marking his coins and then not adjusting them... and vicariously selling them through an antique mall... is pretty much a "Yeah, that's fine" to me.

 

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That implies you're selling product at above market value. Also, you can only calculate your net worth as a combination of widgets and profit if widgets are fully liquid. Regardless, when you sell an item for more than you paid (adjusted for inflation), you make profit, even if you're selling below opportunity cost.

 

You paid therefore it's not stealing, you simply got a good deal. Many of the dealers I buy from don't care. They set their prices to make a profit regardless of price guides and spot prices. For example, my favorite dealer sold a guy a PCGS MS-65 Morgan, he told the guy straight up it was priced below CDN bid but he didn't care because he was still making money on the deal. All of his stuff is that way for the most part....that's why I like him.

 

This assumes the item is going to be replaced. If it was dead weight it won't be replaced by a like item. The dealer may very well have made a profit. In addition, replacement cost can go down as well as up.

 

Even the Federal Treasury mandates the 5 oz silver bullion coins be sold based on the AP's cost, not the replacement value of the Silver.

 

my brother's entire business consists of one time deals (auctions). By that logic he never made a profit (yet somehow he makes his truck payment)

 

That's the sort of "accounting" that allowed GE to make $15 billion profit, pay no taxes, and get an over $3 billion "refund".

If you sell something for more than you paid for it, you made a profit. Unless your accountant spins it into seeming like a loss.

 

Replacement cost can go down - I wrote an example of that scenario in my original post. In such a situation you can keep your pricing based on acquisition cost (Historical Cost) with the most likly outcome being your inventory will turnover slower.

 

I went to a flea market a few years ago. There was a mother and adult son. The son had a box of his junk he saved growing up-everything 5 for a dollar. Mixed in with the happy meal toys and hot wheels was a PCGS graded silver Olympic commemorative from the 80s. I asked him about the coin. He said five for a buck. I tried to explain to him and he said if I didn't want it to put it back in the box so somebody else could by it. Needless to say I bought it for twenty cents.

People say it's wrong to rip-off the dealer for any reason. I sold a common silver Roosevelt dime for fifteen dollars on ebay. What if the buyer rips himself off?

 

Short version of what has been discussed is that if inventory value goes up, the businessman made a profit on appreciation. If he sells for less than market, he incurs a loss. This is why Justafarmer says gain/loss on the sale needs to be at replacement value, to strip out inventory gain/loss, and he is correct. Danr, your brother made profit on buying items below market, that is probably his greatest source of income, inventory gain. Inventory gain is just as real as sale gain/loss, just should be accounted for differently to truly understand your business practices.

Btw, I also agree if a businessman sells something for less than market, the customer did nothing wrong. Are you going to feel bad for the businessman for only offering 80% of melt to buy? He is in BUSINESS by selling, he needs to treat it responsibly or bear the consequences.

 

http://www.williamyoungerman.com/numismatics/numismatics_code.htm While I don't see you did any wrongdoing in the transaction scenario you presented , the above Link are some very good ethics each and everyone who enjoys participating in this field, should live by.

 

I wish the guys on TV would read that link. Maybe there would be less people in the world getting ripped off everyday by overpriced junk.

 

That is why they have the reputation they have . Unfortunately , everyday people fall prey to these types of unscrupulous hawkers.

 

Whoever this dealer was, he was incompetent. A competent dealer would not let someone rip his inventory like that.

As long as the deal was between a willing (adults) buyer and seller, it was not unethical.

In this era of rising prices I am sure people who use price stickers can get careless in updating prices . I only put a cost code and sometimes a retail code on my material. I refer to my computer or excel printout to quote sales prices. Prices for many items are priced at a percentage above spot depending on what it is and updated automatially by the computer and linked to that days spot price which is input one place. If my price for a silver PF set is BV + 35% then its price changes with spot.

I have collectors stopping by my table at shows all the time looking for a rip (these people are basicall lookey looks only out to buy if its a steal) . They are looking for someone who was lazy in updating prices. After I quote them prices, they realize they are barking up the wrong tree and move on. I dont put junk boxes out for them to mishandle or steal from and everything is in a glass case where they have to ask to see it and ask the price.

if set up at a show be careful of someone coming up wanting to take a lot of coins out of your case at once or asking something stupid like "where are you on your gold coins?" You can say "Whatever they add up to." See if he for real and will buy a coin at your price. Then you can keep a tally sheet from there. If they ask to see a greysheet (I keep mine hidden) just say "I dont do wholesale" or simply "its not available." Its their responsibility to do their own price research.

 

If he accepts the offer, how is that ripping him off

 

Why did the original poster say it was a rip off (Is it wrong to rip off a coin dealer, when he is not at store)? He obviously thought it was.

This whole question of ethics has been hashed out here before - ref. bank tellers taking collectible coins from unsuspecting depositors at face value and keeping them for themselves.

There are widely divergent opinions here of what is proper and ethical when it comes to dealing with others.