Blue 1921 High Relief peace dollar!

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Drazzil, Dec 10, 2022.

  1. Drazzil

    Drazzil Member

    One of my favorite coins this here!
     

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  3. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Oh, yeah. Nice coin. Even if the color isn't original, it's pretty, and that's a nice coin to have, regardless.
     
    longshot likes this.
  4. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Did you remove it from the holder, or are those pre-slab photos?

    I looked up your TrueView. That's a lovely Peace dollar, regardless of the technical grade.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Drazzil

    Drazzil Member

    When you say the color isint original do you mean it was artificially toned? It didn't come back from grading with a "questionable color" grade And I didn't remove it from the holder. I paid enough to have it graded haha!

    And thank you. I certainally consider it in my my top five coins!
     
  6. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Merely that it retoned (albeit nicely!) after the cleaning they mentioned.

    That's not so much artificial toning as it is secondary toning.
     
    Joshua Lemons likes this.
  7. Drazzil

    Drazzil Member

    Yes. It is QUITE a beaut of a coin. I love it dearly.
     
    lordmarcovan likes this.
  8. mrweaseluv

    mrweaseluv Supporter! Supporter

    real sweet one :D I've been shopping for one for over 6 months now so hard to find one I like at a price I willing to part with lol
     
  9. Drazzil

    Drazzil Member

    I actually came across a nice one in my LCS. Check your PM for details. I am not affiliated with this LCS but I spend quite a bit of time and money there.
     
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  10. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Yes, it was artificially toned.

    Often, PCGS will only list the most egregious of the issues - a coin with multiple separate issues like your coin won't all fit on the label. So, they'll pick the most obvious one.

    Likely, your coin was cleaned to remove whatever patina that existed on it. Then, they applied the artificial toning you see. They have to clean it first, because otherwise the AT would interfere with the original patina - they must start with clean, fresh silver to get the artificial toning to look "nice."
     
  11. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    To me “artificial toning” implies intent- that somebody deliberately applied chemicals or processes to the coin to hasten its toning in the way they were seeking to change it.

    Now, maybe that was the case with this Peace dollar, or maybe not. I don't know.

    But I will say that some of the silver coins I cleaned myself acquired similar lightly iridescent pastel toning over 20-25 years in my detector finds album. I did not do anything to tone them myself. Just put them away for a long time. They retoned naturally over the years they spent in the album. Yes, they’re cleaned, and thus not truly original, so I wouldn’t call them “naturally” toned, even though the process did happen slowly and naturally over time.

    This is the distinction I make between artificial and secondary toning.

    Now, I’m not suggesting that the Peace dollar here retoned naturally or was deliberately tinkered with to enhance the color, one way or the other. I’m not qualified to judge. But wouldn’t PCGS have gone with “Questionable Color” if the latter was the case?

    Or maybe because it was cleaned, that’s all they noted, and did not go further in describing the color? I guess it’s a moot point, since it goes into a “details” holder either way.
     
  12. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Yes, I'll agree with that. I don't want to start this debate again, it always gets so heated because there are no standard definitions. The terms are emotionally charged, everyone has their own opinion, and nobody can agree on anything!

    There are enough flags on this coin to imply AT - intentional application of enhancing agents.

    As I mentioned, there's only so much space on the label. They can't list all the problems. They pick the one they think is the most severe.

    Exactly.
     
    lordmarcovan likes this.
  13. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Nice looking Peace Dollar. Shame it got an AU details grade. All 1921 Peace Dollars are high relief.
     
    lordmarcovan likes this.
  14. Drazzil

    Drazzil Member

    Oooof! It sounds like this coin may be an expensive lesson for me then. I paid 450 for it.

    Heres what gets me though. If it was artificially toned someone would have had to do it RECENTLY, otherwise the patina would have darkened to much.

    Who would remove the coins original patina recently? The profit motive would almost dictate you leave it alone.
     
  15. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Plus the fees you spent to get it graded? Ouch, sorry man, that is an expensive lesson.

    Not necessarily. AT can be stable for many years, if done properly.

    Picture this - you find a really dark, really ugly dollar. Nobody wants it. Maybe it even already has a problem or two. You get it really cheap. You give it a quick polish, tone it up... and now you've sold it for a huge profit.

    You couldn't sell the ugly coin with problems... but now someone sees this colorful dollar and will pay a premium for it. That is where the profit motive is!
     
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  16. Drazzil

    Drazzil Member

    No 450 all in.
     
  17. Drazzil

    Drazzil Member

    You know Im looking on e bay and I'm not seeing many graded dollars in comperable condition for what I paid for it.

    I like the coin. I think its beautiful, and given the same choice today I'd buy it again. It takes my breath away every time I see it.
     
  18. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Well, there's the answer that counts more than any other.

    As long as you intend to hold it for the long term and aren't in it to try and "flip" it for the same or more money than you paid, you're good.
     
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  19. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I agree with Lord Marcovan. This is really the most important part - that you enjoy it.

    I just want you to be educated about what you have. I'm not trying to poop on your parade, just making you understand what you've got.

    I'm really glad you like it!
     
    lordmarcovan likes this.
  20. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    At one point I played with AT, just to educate myself. Blues and purples are the easiest, I'm really skeptical of coins with those colors.
     
  21. Drazzil

    Drazzil Member

    Thanks! I tend to be pretty thick skinned and I understand your intent. No hurt feelings here!
     
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