Dealer Sued for Selling Fake Slabs

This article was posted on another forum, and I thought it's important to share it here too:

http://www.startribune.com/business/119371484.html

A guy bought a few coin from a coin shop in North Carolina, and after getting 1 of them he realized that it's a Chinese fake. He threatened the shop and told them to get the other coins he ordered ($12,000+ worth) graded by PCGS. Which the shop did... sort of. The shop then sold the guy the coins in FAKE PCGS slabs, which the buyer picked up on, alerted PCGS, and PCGS is now suing the shop.

Crazy... has it come to the point where there are dealers out there who have the balls and immorality to willingly order fake slabs and sell them for huge profits???

 

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Looking at that picture: The blue lable font is all off. The serial number is low/off for a blue slab. The 1st number is a 0. hint hint. And a VF coin that shiney??? Really?

Someone was trying to run a scam. That's for sure.

 

That is very disturbing indeed. It makes me wonder just how prevalent this behavior is becoming and about how many fake coins in counterfeit PCGS slabs may be floating around.

 

It's definitely very disturbing, and I think the number of fake slabs is higher than we think, and grwing faster than we think. I'd hate to see us having to remind each other now, "even when you buy from your dealer, check to make sure the slab is real." That would just be pathetic if we had to do that, I know we all naturally trust our coin shop to be the ultimate authority on authenticity, I mean I've never walked into a shop wondering "hmm, I better be careful, some stuff in here must be fake". It'll kill the hobby.

 

Great article! easy to prove that they were not sent in for grading as the numbers will
Not match up!!

 

Thanks for posting this Rhino....

 

The first number being a 0 is not an indicator of much of anything; there are plenty of blue label slabs that start with a 0 and have 8 digits.

However, your point about the font is dead on. I saw one of these slabs in hand once (with a fairly decent fake 1889-CC dollar), and there's just enough wrong with it to catch your eye if you see slabs on a regular basis. In this particular case, both the ink and the paper are also likely a little bit off.

I am waiting for the sound of a rather large book being thrown...

 

The problem is, counterfeiters are always working to improve their products, so the "Fake Slabs 2.0" that are probably in development already will make sure to fix those mistakes that we find. Having forums like CoinTalk is a double-edged sword - for a collector, the resources, the knowledge, and the people on here are priceless. For a coutnerfeiter looking to improve fakes, it's unfortunately just as valuable of a resource to see how the market reacts to fakes and offers advice on what to tweak for the next release of fakes.

Personally, I'm pretty upset that the hobby has come to this point. There will always be ways to tell genuine from fake, but who has the time to go into a coin shop with a microscope to evalueate the lettering on a label on a TPG case?? I mean, I am there to look at a coin, grade the coin, LOVE the coin, not become an expert on the slab's minute details to ensure I'm not being duped. Human greed is such a destructive force... if the TPG's or US government don't handle this issue in a more substantial way, I predict fakes improving in quality at a MUCH higher rate than the growth in the stops and protections against them that we have.

 

Rhino, I love reading your posts. You are 100% correct, and made a lot of valid points. I do not even like buying from unknown dealers at shows anymore on higher dollared items. Unfortunately, the dealers who knowingly participate in these types of practices will find a way to get counterfeit coins and slabs in their hands no matter what kinds of laws are enacted. The best I feel we can do is find these crooks and deservingly expose them for what they are, and hopefully run them out of business... hopefully with a few fines to pay as well.

 

by run them out of business, you mean jail time. I agree.

 

I guess the dirtbag Skog has greased the palms of the local DA and cops. Where is the indictment for fraud ??? Perhaps the Treasury will go after the creep, after they are finished persecuting the poor NORFED guy ???? Nahhhh that would take a moral compass and perhaps a bit of detective work. Not thier cup-o-tea.

 

Thanks for the post.

 

Right, so they can trade fake cigarettes in fake packages.

 

I read a little more about the recent problems with the fake slabs hitting the market and came across an interesting situation:

What if people started putting genuine, completely authentic coins into fake slabs?

The chances of that being caught by ANYONE are slim. The coin will check out, 100% authentic, and then the slab will say MS-64 on a MS-63 coin... or a MS-65 on a MS-63 coin... If you're VERY experienced at grading, you'll be able to tell it's over-graded. But what if you're just an average collector? You could be overpaying for coins in "fake" grades by THOUSANDS of dollars... you've all seen the differences in prices within the MS grades, no reminders needed there. Or how about all the coins that are getting rejected for AT? No problem, slip it into a new fake slab and problem's gone, it can be sold on ebay within 24 hours... add a "star" or "plus" designation on it while you're at it.

I don't mean to be a doomsayer and "Negative Nancy" here, but as a community of collectors we are not rpepared to handle what may be in store. Counterfeiters are always looking for the next best scam - combining authenticity with counterfeit slabs is only years away, if not already being done, my friends.

 

Maybe this will make new collectors better collectors; rather than rely on the TPG slab, new people will learn to determine if a coin is real or fake and what grade it possesses. Don't get me wrong, I like slabs, but it seems that more and more people just purchase something because it is slabbed.

 

And just wait until they start selling quantities of counterfeit bullion. And it doesn't even come slabbed for investment purposes.

 

I'm waiting to hear about the counterfeit ASE that are going to be mass produced soon enough.

 

Since this hasn't posted in a while

http://coins.about.com/od/coingrading/ig/Fake-PCGS-Slab-Diagnostics/

http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=954

 

Just another "New Frontier" for the Chinese Communist. I would like to take every fraud they put out and nail them into thier skulls !

 

That is an example of "Fake Slab 2.0".