Liberty Dollars, NORFed & the FBI opinion on possession

Hi everyone. I just got off the phone with a member of the FBI. I called the US Attorney's Office in Charlotte, North Carolina last week, and I guess they forwarded my contact information to the FBI.

Anyway, these were the takeaways from my phone call:

1) It's legal to possess the Liberty Dollar notes. The US government chose not to prosecute for distribution of the "warehouse receipts" (notes). Therefore, these are currently okay to own, as long as one does not use them directly in commerce. One can assume that the FBI didn't have proof of the receipts being used in commerce.

2) It's legal to possess the Liberty Dollar rounds, with caveat. If you own the coins as collectibles, then you're fine. The FBI was very clear on that. However, if you sell the rounds as collectibles, you are on very thin ice. Why? Well, with the caveat that he wasn't providing legal advice, the agent indicated that you don't know final intent. So, if a buyer decided to use the round as currency, you would be liable for distribution with the intent to defraud (US Title Code 18, Sec 491).

2a) The suggestion, again with the legal caveat of not providing advice, was made that a long list of disclaimers would need to be provided with each transaction. (Basically stating that the rounds were involved in a counterfeiting case and use of the rounds for any purpose other than collectible value would be illegal.)

I know there are other threads about the Liberty Dollar, but I didn't want to have to post this multiple times. I just thought it would be easier to have a new thread specific to the legality of possession. Please don't post responses with your political opinion about whether the government or von NotHaus were right in the case. The reality is that the government won the case and, pending appeal, von NotHaus is now a convicted felon. How we feel doesn't change that fact.

Again, I'm hoping this thread remains educational, as I took the time to contact the Attorney General's office in NC, and the FBI took the time to have someone contact me.

 

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Thanks for sharing this! I have been wanting to get a Ron Paul silver coin, but put it off for fears it would be illegal... but now that I know they are perfectly OK as collectors items only, i am definitely buying one!

 

I only first heard about liberty dollars today, but now my collector's curiosity has the best of me and I want some for myself too!

 

yeah i am a big fan of Ron Paul as well, so that is why I would love to have one with his name on it. As a side note, John McCain said "Ron Paul is the most honest man I have ever met." - and that is why I think he should run for president in 2012!

 

Thanks for the info! I wouldn't want to sell mine to anyone because who knows what they will do with them.......That could turn ugly real quick! They are beautiful coins IMO.

 

I think the agent was wrong in his assertion that it's illegal to sell them for the reasons stated. He may be confusing the differences between counterfeit money and those not legally issued or demonetized but still bearing a legal denomination. If it were the case that these were illegal to sell, it would literally destroy the paper money collecting industry. It would make obsoletes, which contain denominated values but with no legal authority, illegal to sale, as well as a multitude of scrip. Just because something was never legally monetized does not make it illegal to sell, only to use as such currency in transactions.
Guy

 

Whoa, whoa... not a Ron Paul fan here. The liberty dollars interest me strictly as a curiosity here!

 

One question, maybe I missed it but I don't think so. Is it legal to own Norfeds that you know for a fact were used to purchase goods, such as gas?? Incidentally, this is how I feel about the whole thing. Bernard got a bit egotistical and greedy and got his @xx in a sling, nothing we can do about it no matter how we feel, case closed. Just a heads up tho', you're on a public forum and I am sure you will get many different opinions.

 

So if they are illegal to sell, then shouldn't ebay pull all the auctions regarding them?

 

They are not illegal to sell, however, if you were to sell some, and the buyer tried to pass them off as legal US currency, and he got caught, and told the authorities that he got them from you, you might be in trouble...... but they would have to prove that you sold them to him as legal currency and not a collectors item, i would think....... lol. I think I just confused myself.......

 

So you're okay to sell them and have to constantly worry if the person you're selling it to is a gov't agent? lol I don't plan on selling mine as I think they're pretty cool.

 

Quck question what are we talking about? Lol, The only liberty dollar i know of are the half's does anybody have pics of these?

 

Go on ebay and type in "norfed" and you will see what they look like.

 

Let's see what happens when I put it on ebay with the fact that it's a rebel norfed and broke the law. Who knows, it just may increase the premium. :thumb:

Trouble is, it's a Freedom Norfed and I don't want to let it go... Wish I had a 1998

 

Consdering that these coins are I think pretty rare do you think they will ever be worth any money? I went ahead and bought the 5 and the 10 just because i like them, and plus they are silver!

 

They could have easily avoided all of this if they had not used the word "dollar". There is no law that says I can not conduct transactions in foreign coin/currency but businesses are not required to accept them.

 

this got me thinking (and yes i am sitting down ) but anyway some states now have a law where you can take something like this to a gas ststion and buy gas with it and you get the value of its metal
in a way that is useing it in commerce.

 

Yeah........ There might be a little gray area there between state and federal laws. If you are using them as silver bullion and not US dollars though, maybe that would be ok. who knows?