Egyptian I think

Hello all. I recently purchased this coin with a bust of a Roman on one side and what I believe to be a hawk (but definately a bird) on the back. While there doesn't seem to be any room for writing on the front, the back has raised areas that show some type of writing. Can anyone help me identify this coin. The person I purchased it from said it was from Rome and over 2000 yrs old. I believe it from Egypt. Age, I am not sure about.

Thanks

 

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I think you'd get more response if you posted this in the ancients/world forum. Also, pics are a tad out o' focus. Any way to clear 'em up a bit?

And welcome to the forum dear fellow......

 

I tried to do some research but didnt find much, the closest coin i could find to yours was this one http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://rosenblumcoins.com/files/img/35c/GF8.JPG&imgrefurl=http://rosenblumcoins.com/35c&usg=__gIy4afYscJzN2YX9_ffMBE1qOHg=&h=147&w=300&sz=38&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=gVMIh3Qbf_SDOM:&tbnh=74&tbnw=152&ei=PqqPTfXnCs6SgQfu5OGrDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHeraldic%2BEagle%2Bof%2BRoman%2BEgypt%2Bwith%2BThunderbolt%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1916%26bih%3D902%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=1032&vpy=255&dur=963&hovh=117&hovw=240&tx=147&ty=80&oei=PqqPTfXnCs6SgQfu5OGrDQ&page=1&ndsp=76&ved=1t:429,r:18,s:0

 

Thank you. I shall repost/move to the suggested forum. Yes, I can take better pics.

 

I've been searching online for about a week now. Of the several coins I've purchased, this is the one that has me stumped and honestly, the only reason I purchased the other coins. I'm more of an investor than a collector but I feel like the lot I purchased is more suited for collectors.

You win some, you lose some, and sometimes you draw.

NJ

 

Nightly Jazz, Welcome to the forum! Please only post a thread once. PM a moderator to move a thread. I delete your other thread and moved this one to ancients and world.

Jim

 

Definitely from Roman Egyptian. The bird is an eagle. Any chance you can get a better focused picture of the obverse?

 

Looks like a tetradrachm of Ptolemy, no clue one which Ptolemy though; and no clue if its authentic, too hard to see.

 

My bad Jim. I encouraged him to do so without describing the proper protocol.

 

Thanks all for your assistance. Here is a better picture of both sides of the coin.

NJ

 

I believe I see a club in the reverse field which could mean Tyre mint especially if there is a Tyre monogram over it (too fuzzy). It is a Ptolemy (Egypt but why did you think so?) but too fuzzy to go more than that (possibly P II?). The top fuzzy lump behind the eagle could be the year of reign date (two Greek numeral digits - lambda theta = 39 on the sample on the link).
http://www.ancientcash.info/page-3/egypt-title-4.html
It is not the kind of coin an investor would find attractive even if it is genuine (can't tell and fakes do exist). The new photo makes it more than a little doubtful. You should show it, in person at a show to an ancient specialist dealer who will be able to authenticate and identify it. You won't get rich since condition is everything on these.

 

I thought it was Egyptian because of the Eagle. The research I did produced several Egyptian coins with birds, no Roman coins (could be luck). Not looking to get rich, just get my investment back. I purchased a "blind" lot of coins/paper from a friend in need. He's still my friend lol. Even offered to give me my money back. I told him it's the nature of business and we moved on. I'll look for a show in my area.

Thanks for your help.

NJ

 

Ok, I will send you the bill

Jim

​

 

Ouch....LOL.

 

That's a really interesting coin! It rather increases my curiosity about ancients...

What are y'all using for resources to try and figure this one out? I'd like to educate myself better

 

This is a hard question. Most of us work by recollecting what we have seen before and then going to the appropriate book or website to confirm. A large, thick relatively round silver makes me think Greek of the later period (after Alexander the Great). The Eagle reverse makes me think of Ptolemaic Egypt (founded by Alexander's general Ptolemy I). From there you can go book and check the Ptolemaic section of David Sear's Greek Coins and their values (a beginner's reference) of search online for Ptolemy coins. Sear page 735 shows a couple coins that are similar and unillustrated coin #7773 shows the club if that is what I thought I saw on the photo even though it is unlikely that you will find an exact match since there are so many varieties. There are more specialized books but they cost good money and only specialists and book collectors would have them.

Online searching for coins of Ptolemy gives several hits including
http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/egypt/ptolemy_II/t.html

which has a lot of pictures for comparison and very little more chance of an absolute exact match but starts in the right direction. At this point, I can't tell you which image is the closest match since the fuzzy photos we had here don't show minor details. The question of its being a fake leads me to
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/thumbnails.php?album=20&page=17
where I fail to find an exact match but wonder how similar it would be to a coin part way down the page that has several angles on a coin made recently in the middle East if we could see the details. Fakers are constantly coming out with new product so we can't be too hardline expecting to find every on on a list like this.

I'm no expert in all ancient coins. I've only been collecting for 45 years. There are some things I am more comfortable with and probably could be really certain of 99% of the coins I see. Ptolemaic silver is not my speciality so I'd only bet on my guess here as a 50-50 proposition. There are a few people who present themselves as experts on everything but the best 'experts' I know are more likely to claim a 95% certainty in most ancients. It is hard to keep up on a million different coins. That is why I don't recommend ancients to investors. They are more work than they are worth unless you also are getting some fun out of the process or stick to a very few very safe things with signed certificates of authenticity (never with guarantees). The safe investment is to pay top dollar and buy from full price dealers you have some reason to trust or by a few thousand dollars worth of books and go on a ten year crash course of study.

Some will say I am overly sanguine on the matter but if your only interest in coins is capital gain, I suggest buying something else.

 

I agree with DS. the coin screams Greek or possibly Phonecian not Roman.

 

Thanks for that detailed reply! It's really great as a new collector to see the thought process of y'all experienced folk.

 

The hardest step here is the first step. Deciding which book or which online reference to try is a lot harder with ancients. Often the best clues are what we call 'fabric'. Most modern coins have substantially the same 'fabric' (round, flat, very low relief) but ancients vary a lot and tip off where and how they were made. I recommend new collectors try to develop a feel for this subject both as an ID tool and as a little protection from fakes. That is why I wrote my page:
http://dougsmith.ancients.info/fabric.html

 

Oh wow, thanks again! Love your site, it's going to be a fun read and a great resource!