A couple of years ago,I purchased 3 French gold 20 Franc pieces,a Napoleon I,French "lucky" angel and a rooster/Marianne.I paid $89.95 apiece for them and the second two can still be had for around that price.The Napoleons,however,seem to go up about $10 every time I check the online dealers.The least expensive I can find one in good condition..VF or higher,is $149.99.This seems to be a perfect example of the historical value of a coin boosting it above gold value.
In the memoirs of General Jean Compte de Rapp, Napoleon's most important Aide de Camp, Rapp recalls a terse remark made to Napoleon Bonapart as they were playing cards. Rapp, who was actually German, not French, always felt that he was treated as a second-class citizen in Napoleon’s military entourage. Most of Napoleon's Marshals and counselors were either related or aristocrats. Citizen Rapp was a commoner from Colmar, a town in southern Germany. Napoleon flipped a gold Napoleon coin across the table at General Rapp and said, "Your Germans are rather fond of these Napoleons are they not?" To which Rapp replied, "They prefer them to the Great one Sire." He had a way of cutting through the French BS, and was one of the few who could usually get away with such impertinence. I have always wanted a few Napoleons.
The Napoleon I - 40 franc piece contained .374 troy oz. of gold, 11.6 grams, worth approximately $210 in just gold bullion at the current price of gold. The scary part of this type of statement is the possibility that someone would even consider melting down one of these treasures. On the other hand this certainly wasn't a coin made for day to day use. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any of them below almost circulated.
????? Most of the 40 franc pieces i've seen in the flesh have seen their fair share of circulation. Here's one of my two. I'd say VF (going by the lack of hairlines). Anyone else care to comment?
As another who also collects French gold coinage I would say it is most unusual to find any of the Napoleon gold coins in XF or higher. And if you can - prices are out of this world when compared to other gold coinage of the period. Napoleonic coinage is definitely the exception to the rule that world gold is affordable.
This is my main collection or perhaps obsession is another term to use. Due to current events, I have put purchasing on hold but I am still dreaming of getting me a first counsul AN XI 20 franc gold coin. I do know that it will be added to my collection in the future and the delay will only make the purchase more sweeter. I pretty much have most of the French 20 Gold Franc series that starts with Napoleon and ends with the marianna coin, head of the republic/rooster coin. I don't have one for every year but I do have just about one of every style, for example 3 Louis Napoleon Bonapartes from the second republic and second empire. For me it is the finest of series of gold coins to collect, but that is me.
Oh around here and there, i feel like i'm living at work these days though so i don't get to post as much as i used to. I haven't even had time to go out buying coins! I've been coin purchase free since November. I suppose over the next few months i'll come and go but i'll keep popping in.
First off, I apologize for assuming the above.... Suddenly I have a bug up my tail. From a rather unrelated numismatic perspective, I'm trying to figure out why you can't find Gold 20 – 40 Franc Napoleon's in much better than extra fine condition as matter of course. I know this couldn't possibly have been day to day currency in France. So it baffles me that currency that most likely spent it's centuries in bank vaults untouched would be so used. Would the experts here think that this circulation was caused by movement between banks or governments? I have on another forum the following question posted and I hope to have an update shortly.
You must bear in mind that while gold may not have been used for paying the average soldier, it was very much used to facilitate Napoleons wars, including the purchase of supplies, ships, weapons, uniforms, buildings, bribes, spies, reparations, etcetera etcetera.These coins also fuelled the French internal economy and certainly DID circulate extensively in France (and in Napoleonic Europe), if not at an `on the street' level, certainly at a merchant and banker level. I don;t understand where you get the idea that they would be lying in a bank vault from. They would not have lain dormant during the Napoleonic era, of that i'm fairly certain.
You are 100% right.. although I think I have a grasp of certain coinage.. I'm afraid my understanding of economics was left at my high school upon graduation. So basically we are saying that you won't find any sweat from an honest days work on these coins, although you are quite likely to find the paw prints and teeth marks of an overweight businessman These terms, and being an American.. I can understand . On the other hand.. maybe not.. it's the United States that owns Fort Knox and passed legislation requiring bags of fresh Morgans to sit for decades.
Clark Smith usually has four or five Napoleons for sale at various prices. You might be surprised to see what he has to offer. I am not saying he is the best dealer around, you still have to trust your own eye, but for a quick buy I was always happy with what I got. http://www.coinvault.com/france.htm
An interesting response from another forum. Does anyone know if there was actually a concerted effort by Louis XVIII or Charles X to remove Napoleon I coinage from circulation? Thanks.. interesting ..
The story goes that the francs were all over europe and a lot of them after the defeats were melted in the once liberated european states. As far as France is concerned, good question but the French did keep his standard with Louis and Charles adding themselves, make up your own mind on that, and continued the series up till World War I. And by the way, the gold francs themselves were also carried by the officers into combat. Finds have been found.
