1898 2 1/2 gulden proof

Discussion in 'What's it Worth' started by Marianne, Feb 14, 2006.

  1. Marianne

    Marianne New Member

    I've ordered the 19th century Krause, but it won't arrive for two weeks. Meanwhile, through sheer fluke, I came across a 1978 catalog of "De Nederlandse Munten van 1795 Tot Heden" owned by my dad. In it, he circled all the coins he owned from this time period and his estimate of their grades.

    For the 1898 Koningin Wilhelmina 2 1/2 gulden, he made a little circle past the FDC designation and wrote "proef." The book doesn't give proof mintage or price info (plus, the prices it does have are from 1978) so I wondered if one of you could please help me?

    The coin looks exceptional to my untrained eye. It's in an album that consists of sleeves that pull out from the top of the page, and I'm afraid I'll rub the coin if I remove it. When I get more air-tites, I might just carefully cut this album apart rather than wrestle with the sleeves.
     
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I own the same book you mention Marianne, only mine is the 1998 edition. The mintage for that coin was 100,000. Value listed in the Netherlands book is 2,500 ( not sure what the currency was then ) for FDC. In Krause 2004 edition it is valued as $1,250 for BU and $3,000 for Proof. There is no mintage listed in either book for the Proofs.

    Now there is quite a difference between FDC and Proof, not price wise so much but the method of manufacture. So I wonder if the coin really is a Proof. One of the grades used in Dutch is Pr. - but it stands for Prachtig, not Proof. So is it possible your father made a mistake and misinterpretted this abreviation ?

    Proof examples certainly exist, and the coin may well be one. But given what I have explained above - I wonder. But if you can post a pic - we might just be able to tell if it's a Proof or not ;)
     
  4. Marianne

    Marianne New Member

    GD, you're a wonder. :hug:
    Well, my dad did a fair amount of coin buying and selling, so it would be odd for him to confuse prachtig with proef. Could be, though. The coin has an almost transluscent blue quality to it... I'll get back to work with my camera practice and see what I can do.
     
  5. Marianne

    Marianne New Member

    Here she is, I hope.
    Unfortunately, the coin has some scratches that I'm thinking are from album rub. The spot by her chin is something on my scanner...
     

    Attached Files:

  6. zaneman

    zaneman Former Moderator

    Looks like a proof coin to me.
     
  7. zaneman

    zaneman Former Moderator

    I wouldn't take my word for it though. Wait for someone more experienced.
     
  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I'm going to agree, looks like a Proof.
     
  9. Marianne

    Marianne New Member

    Thanks, zaneman & GD.
    I've been scouring Dutch coin websites, but still can't come up with a mintage for the proofs. I will slog onward.
     
  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The Dutch Mint has a museum and a Library - you could contact them and ask - CLICK HERE
     
  11. Marianne

    Marianne New Member

    Thanks. I just sent them an e-mail. In Dutch, even. They'll laugh hysterically.
     
  12. chrisild

    chrisild Coin Collector

    JFTR, the museum's collection is currently closed. That won't affect e-mail contacts, I suppose. :) But in case anybody plans to visit the museum: The Muntmuseum (Utrecht), the DNB Numismatic Dept. (Amsterdam) and the Penningkabinet (Leiden) merged a while ago. The resulting "Geld-+Bankmuseum" will open in Utrecht in about a year (probably March 2007). Its website is at http://www.geldmuseum.nl/

    Christian
     
  13. Marianne

    Marianne New Member

    I received a reply from the very kind Johan van Alphen. He told me that the number of proofs is unknown, but a considerable number of counterfeits exist. If the coin has a reeded edge ("kartelrand," I'm learning all sorts of new Dutch words) it's fake. The rand of my coin is not karteled. Phew.
     
  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I normally wouldn't do this, but I've always been a sucker for a lady ;)

    If there is anyone who would know - write to Fred G. van den Haak, shop@reyes.stanford.edu and ask him.
     
  15. Marianne

    Marianne New Member

    I need a smiley with batting eyelashes right about now.
    You're a pal, GD.
     
  16. satootoko

    satootoko Retired

    Here you go:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Marianne

    Marianne New Member

    Brings a whole new meaning to "batting a thousand."
    Thanks, Roy. I will only use the eyelashes on special occasions.
     
  18. Marianne

    Marianne New Member


    Fred is one of the nicest people on the planet.

    He told me that the Netherlands Mint never used to make known how many proofs were made, only the total number of coins made with a particular date.

    Fairly regularly, one or two times per year that he knows of, one of these proofs comes up for sale. Some of these same coins, of course, could be bought and sold multiple times over the years. Two exist in gold. In silver, at least 3 were made with "zy" instead of "zij" in the inscription "God zij met ons" along the outer edge. Then there's one 3 times the usual thickness with "zy," and another with "zij." (My head is spinning like a blender set to "pulverize," but I'll get used to it.) Three coins are known to exist in sandblast proof.

    The minting for circulation didn't begin until April 1901. The first 40-60 coins made with new dies would appear prooflike. (Is that what's meant by "polished dies?")

    My coin reads "zij," but with a gap, so it's "z ij." We'll see if that leads anywhere. Fred is on the case.
     
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Amazing what ya can find out when ya talk to the right person ;)
     
  20. chrisild

    chrisild Coin Collector

    That kind of spacing is pretty normal - the Dutch IJ combination (ligature) is usually treated as if it was one character. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IJ_(letter) That article does not say anything about your coin but it also explains the ZIJ/ZY thing. :)

    Christian
     
  21. Marianne

    Marianne New Member

    Oh, the wonderful world of diphthongs... Thanks, Christian.
     
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