Coin show vendor said US coins being melted...

The horror! In the quarter series I wonder how many 1964 D type C's and 1964 B's have been melted. 1964 B's used to be considered one of the more common B dates and now it is not.

When newly released about 1 in 12,000 1964 D's was a type C and now it must be less than that in the wild. With those odds, I don't think anybody would stop to look.

 

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no, I'm asking why do it? the silver is already in recognizable coin form.
why melt them?

 

Thank you for the correction about the status. You're correct that it wasn't passed by Congress and therefore not a law. However, as a regulation, if you are found in violation, you would be subject to the consequences of such.

I'm not a billionaire, so I wouldn't exactly call the $10,000 and five years in prison maximum per instance "toothless."

As for fry-daddy's question of "why melt known quantities"...

The best answer I can give is that the 90% coins, as circulated currency, don't hold assay once they leave the mint. Smelters pay by the gram, as opposed to face-value multipliers. They then melt the coins to recover not only the silver, but the copper and whatever other base metals that might be present in the particular coins in question. If I were operating a business in an economy without a legitimate fiat currency, I would be more hesitant to accept 90% coin than properly documented and assayed silver. There are tests to verify silver and gold content. I'm sure that if the price of silver should breach $50 per ounce, then better silver tests would be developed for pawn shops to quick test silver purity. With smelted/assayed silver, the assumption is .999 purity. It might be higher, but that's the minimum if it's "pure silver." That can be used to establish a value quickly based upon weight in troy or grams.

In both cases, you'd need a gram scale (ideally to two decimal places) to give a fair price, and more likely than not, the US coin silver would be accepted at a discount to [insert name of country here] bullion silver.

Conder, where/how did you find out that the regulation exempts war nickels? I'd like a definitive answer on that before I start chasing them down en masse.

 

No. It is legal to melt silver but I would be careful how much you spend on sets with silver being high as it will probably come down.

 

We always say coins are "off to be melted" when in reality not very many are actually melted at all. Most junk bullion just keeps trading hands as is and never sees a furnace. I bet if we looked at statistics, I'd say less than 10% of scrap coins traded are melted annually.
Guy

 

I remember a 1969 cover on Coinage magazine with the title "It's Legal!'
It showed a smelting pot with some nice coins, I especially remember a vf standing lib quarter in the pot.
EDIT- I just googled and found this-
There's a thread here that mentions it:
http://www.cointalk.com/t51322/

 

" I'd say less than 10% of scrap coins traded are melted annually. " ----> that's actually quite a bit IMO esp. over a period of time

​

 

makes you wonder why they sell so much junk silver to people then. oh yeah, they're melting it all for the big profits.

 

OK here is the the actual interm regulation and the changes made to create the final regulation. The section you specifically wanted to know about is in bold text.

Authority and Issuance

For the reasons set forth, Chapter 1 of Subtitle B of title 31 of the Code of Federal Regulations is amended by adding part 82 to read as follows:
Part 82—5-cent and one-cent coin regulations

82.1 Prohibitions.

82.2 Exceptions.

82.3 Definitions.

82.4 Penalties.
Authority

31 U.S.C. 5111(d).

§ 82.1 Prohibitions.

Except as specifically authorized by the Secretary of the Treasury (or designee) or as otherwise provided in this part, no person shall export, melt, or treat:

(a) Any 5-cent coin of the United States; or

(b) Any one-cent coin of the United States.

§ 82.2 Exceptions.

(a) The prohibition contained in § 82.1 against the exportation of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins of the United States shall not apply to:

(1) The exportation in any one shipment of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins having an aggregate face value of not more than $100 that are to be legitimately used as money or for numismatic purposes. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to authorize export for the purpose of sale or resale of coins for melting or treatment by any person.

(2) The exportation of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins having an aggregate face value amount of not more than $5 carried on an individual, or in the personal effects of an individual, departing from a place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

(b) The prohibition contained in § 82.1 against the treatment of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins shall not apply to the treatment of these coins for educational, amusement, novelty, jewelry, and similar purposes as long as the volumes treated and the nature of the treatment makes it clear that such treatment is not intended as a means by which to profit solely from the value of the metal content of the coins.

(c)(1) The prohibition contained in § 82.1 against exportation, melting, or treatment of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins of the United States shall not apply to coins exported, melted, or treated under a written license issued by the Secretary of the Treasury (or designee).

(2) Applications for licenses should be transmitted to the Director, United States Mint, 801 9th Street, NW., Washington, DC 20220.

§ 82.3 Definitions.

(a) “5-cent coin of the United States” means a 5-cent coin minted and issued by the Secretary of the Treasury pursuant to 31 U.S.C. 5112(a)(5).

(b) “One-cent coin of the United States” means a one-cent coin minted and issued by the Secretary of the Treasury pursuant to 31 U.S.C. 5112(a)(6).

(c) “Export” means to remove, send, ship, or carry, or to take any action with the intent to facilitate a person's removing, sending, shipping, or carrying, from the United States or any place subject to the jurisdiction thereof, to any place outside of the United States or to any place not subject to the jurisdiction thereof.

(d) “Person” means any individual, partnership, association, corporation, or other organization, but does not include an agency of the Government of the United States.

(e) “Treat” or “treatment” means to smelt, refine, or otherwise treat by heating, or by a chemical, electrical, or mechanical process.

§ 82.4 Penalties.

(a) Any person who exports, melts, or treats 5-cent coins or one-cent coins of the United States in violation of § 82.1 shall be subject to the penalties specified in 31 U.S.C. 5111(d), including a fine of not more than $10,000 and/or imprisonment of not more than 5 years.

(b) In addition to the penalties prescribed by 31 U.S.C. 5111(d), a person violating the prohibitions of this part may be subject to other penalties provided by law, including 18 U.S.C. 1001(a).

Dated: December 12, 2006.

This interm regulation was accepted and made permanent with the following ammendments. Note the section in bold text.

2. Section 82.2 is amended by revising paragraph (a)(2), redesignating current paragraph (c) as paragraph (f), and adding new paragraphs (c), (d), and (e) as follows:

§ 82.2 Exceptions.

(a) * * *

(2) The exportation of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins carried on an individual, or in the personal effects of an individual, departing from a place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, when the aggregate face value is not more than $5, or when the aggregate face value is not more than $25 and it is clear that the purpose for exporting such coins is for legitimate personal numismatic, amusement, or recreational use.

* * * * *

(c) The prohibition contained in § 82.1 against the exportation, melting, or treatment of 5-cent and one-cent coins of the United States shall not apply to coins exported, melted, or treated incidental to the recycling of other materials so long as—

(1) Such 5-cent and one-cent coins were not added to the other materials for their metallurgical value;

(2) The volumes of the 5-cent coins and one-cent coins, relative to the volumes of the other materials recycled, makes it clear that the presence of such coins is merely incidental;

(3) The separation of the 5-cent and one-cent coins from the other materials would be impracticable or cost prohibitive.

(d) The prohibition contained in § 82.1 against the exportation, melting, or treatment of 5-cent coins shall not apply to 5-cent coins inscribed with the years 1942, 1943, 1944, or 1945 that are composed of an alloy comprising copper, silver and manganese.

(e) The prohibition contained in § 82.1 against the exportation of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins shall not apply to 5-cent coins and one-cent coins exported by a Federal Reserve Bank or a domestic depository institution, or toa foreign central bank, when the exportation of such 5-cent coins and one-cent coins is for use as circulating money.

* * * * *

Dated: April 10, 2007.

 

I haven't yet seen numbers indicating how much is being sold as junk silver coins, but I'll bet it's a drop in the bucket compared to industrial consumption of silver from all sources. I'd love to know how much really is going to the smelters, though.

 

I think many buy it for their own hoards and "end times munny" <sic>

 

Thanks a bundle, Conder!

 

you're right, but there is a lot of paranoia and foolishness and it is invading the bullion sections of a lot of forums.

 

You're assuming that the End Times won't involve werewolves.