Coin Doctoring at it's worst.

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I guess I am in the minority in that I wouldn't call this coin doctoring, I'd call it coin repair. As far as being scary, not knowing the full history of the coin, there's no way to know if there was an attempt to deceive or not. It IS in a slab that fully discloses the issue. It is at least a possibility that the repair was done many many years ago rather than recently and with the intent to "correct" a past wrong. Because once the coin has been holed, the damage is done. At that point, it can be left holed or plugged. For a historically important and rare coin, as long as it is disclosed, I'd probably rather have a plugged coin than a holed one, although I do realize this opens up the possibility of the coin trying to be passed off as undamaged in the future. That's probably the concern - but it is still genuine after all.

 

This is assuming it was a hole at all. The label states plugged, but would they use this same description if it was a diagonal gash or something like shovel hit that went from the base of to E to the rim and the doctor used metal to fill the impression and tooled the E and the dentils. Or would they list that "repaired"? Just a thought.

 

Didn't read well enough - missed that the coin was purchased raw - sorry about that. There is still the possibility that it's an old repair, the fact of which got lost over time. It is still a nice coin but I understand the concern if you paid a problem-free price. That's always that risk with a raw coin unfortunately.

 

I would ask for an appearance review... it's free and then you know exactly where it is... but I think it would be fun to find it yourself...

 

There is also something wrong with the R. Look at its main stem, the front vertical part. It's a good bit wider than the B's stem. In addition, the R's bottom serif is kind of clunky.



On the coin from Heritage, the R's stem is thin and the bottom serif is rounded.



I think you'll also notice that on both coins, the dentils seem to "swell" in the exact same place, i.e., between the E and R, suggesting they have not been retooled.

By the way, great photos, LostDutchman.

 

Looks like someone started to hole that coin too . I wonder if you can see A.Stocktons " fixes "
or is this one better . Scarry stuff when LD , Doug and all the others can't tell .
rzage

 

I keep going back and looking at the throat and the spot in the shield.

 

Matt,

How about looking at this area. Something is not right on both sides.

 

Sorry, Jim, but you have to flip one side of the coin to get them to line up correctly. However, you are close to the same area I am referencing in the throat.

 

LostDutchman, did you ever find out anything else about this?

 

Any update?

If you've not solved this puzzle.... Look at the areas under a microscope (50-200x). The plugs I've seen in the past are visible in this arena due to the different texture of the smoothing around the plugged area. Hope this helps...Mike

 

Well as for the distortion by some of the letters. This happens when a coin is overcooked while cleaning with electrolysis. The metal overheats ant that is the result. As for the center hole. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries. A process to identify metals was a brinnel hardness test. This test uses a diamond bit dropped from a measured height and records the bounce.This test leaves a cone shaped indentation in the metal being tested. Maybe, some silver was lapped into a cone. Here are a few examples of Brinnel cones and electro overheating. Hope this helps.
Brinnel Damage -


This is the reason why there is damage to center of many coins.

Electro overcooking distortion -


Note distortion and burn at the 8 o'clock position behind the "Z" Zacatas mint mark.

 

Given all the debate about where the plug is, and this by experts who can easily detect most coin doctoring; I think the title to this thread should be re-named: "Coin doctoring at its best."

 

Is there anyway to go back to NGC and ask them? May be the only way to get a definite answer.

 

The R still really bugs me (even if the hole is elsewhere). If it's not a die variety, how does the main stem of a letter become noticeably wider?

 

+1. Pretty funny.

 

Nothing new to report on this one. I still believe the hole to be between the E and the R. The funky denticles on both sides paired with the distortion in the letters is the only evidence I can see on this one. I see some weakness in the center of the coin but I think this is more indicative with the dies wearing or bulging. I have looked at several other examples of this die pair and they all show central weakness to some extent even on very high grade pieces.