Coin Doctoring at it's worst.

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by LostDutchman, Feb 18, 2011.

  1. LostDutchman

    LostDutchman Under Staffed & Overly Motivated Supporter

    I think oval_man has unlocked this mystery. I'm not thinking this coin has been center holed at all. I now believe that the hole was in the E of liberty tho I can't see any disturbance in the field around the letter the bottom of the E does not match up with the die pairing. I have spent about 20 minutes this morning looking at several different coins from this die pairing and they all have the long E bottom. It also appears to have 2-4 of the denticles recut just towards the edge from the E. It's going to be really hard to get a pic of it but I'll try. This hole would correspond just to the viewers right of the tailfeathers. Whoever did this was a pro because the surfaces look undisturbed and the overall look of the coin is that of a one-looker coin. WOW this coin is nasty good.

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  3. abe

    abe LaminatedLincolnCollector

    Look at the ear on this one and compare it to the plugged one.
    [​IMG]
    This one is more horizontal than the plugged one.
     
  4. Breakdown

    Breakdown Member

    Great thread -- I've learned a few things but am still confused. Matt, please let us know if you ever get a definite identification of the location of the plug. Looks like a good candidate for a coin grading class.
     
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Don't think so Matt. Measure the spot you are looking at in the E from both the vertical and the horizonal lines. It doesn't line up with the reverse. The same spot on the reverse incorporates the tail feathers. And while I can see what might be a messed with spot on the E, there is no such similar spot on the reverse. And nobody is that good.

    I can't explain the longer leg on the E. Maybe you have a new variety ?
     
  6. LostDutchman

    LostDutchman Under Staffed & Overly Motivated Supporter

    Look at the 4 denticles to the northeast of the E. I am certain this is the spot. Let me shoot the back too.
     
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    OK - shoot your pics. But mark the spots you are talking about, maybe I'm not looking in the same place you are.
     
  8. LostDutchman

    LostDutchman Under Staffed & Overly Motivated Supporter

    Here is the reverse shot. I think I see the hole.
    show2.jpg

    Here is what I see.
    show4.jpg

    On the Obverse.
    show3.jpg
     
  9. oval_man

    oval_man Elliptical member

    I was thinking the same thing. But there is definitely something wrong with the E, because the bottom bar, as well as being too short, is clearly too thick.
     
  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    What does any of that have to do with the E though ?
     
  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Try shooting some close ups of the spots marked by Dick and I.
     
  12. LostDutchman

    LostDutchman Under Staffed & Overly Motivated Supporter

    and the middle of the coin. The obverse looks strange... but it could be attributed to a die bulge or something. The reverse looks correct to me.
    show6.jpg show5.jpg
     
  13. LostDutchman

    LostDutchman Under Staffed & Overly Motivated Supporter

    That area on the reverse towards the edge corresponds with the area marked on the obverse. Maybe the hole was larger on the obverse and tapered as it went through the coin... I would bet my left leg that's where it is. I mean the E clearly doesn't match... so we either have a new variety.... very unlikely... or the E was altered in some way.
     
  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I'm convinced it's the spots Dick and I marked. They did extensive work on the obv, and it incorporates the ear. And you can even see the different colored metal and file marks on the rev.

    Guess we'll have to disagree on this one.

    You could always call NGC and ask them where they thought it was.
     
  15. LostDutchman

    LostDutchman Under Staffed & Overly Motivated Supporter

    Either way this is one of the scariest coins I have seen in a while. The repairs are good... but to me at least are somewhat detectable. The color on the other hand... this coin looks to have 200 years worth of grit & grime. I've been doing this for a while now and i never thought someone could get the surfaces to look SO good.
     
  16. LostDutchman

    LostDutchman Under Staffed & Overly Motivated Supporter

    Ok,

    Here is more evidence to support my thoughts.

    This coin minus the E is the B-19 "AMERICAI" vareity. This is the only variety with the widely recut last A in AMERICA on the reverse.

    This is Liberty of the B-19 courtesy of Heritage. Note that the base of the E is different. The hole has to be there. The rest of the spacing in LIBERTY is correct in regards to the other letters and also with the stars.

    show7.jpg
     
  17. rdwarrior

    rdwarrior Junior Member

    Is it possible you have 2 repairs?, in the pic above of the ear you see a square shaped repair, and on the rim by the E you may have a repaired rim nick, and possibly a gouge thru the E?
     
  18. LostDutchman

    LostDutchman Under Staffed & Overly Motivated Supporter

    I don't rule that out completely.
     
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    But if it is in th ebase of the E (circled with red area), then where is it on the other side ? And what does the area circled in green, which you previuosly mentioned, have to do with a hole if the hole was in the base of the E ?
     

    Attached Files:

  20. LostDutchman

    LostDutchman Under Staffed & Overly Motivated Supporter

    Looking at the coin with my glass what appears to be a square on the obverse is what looks like a planchet flaw (left side of square) and the top of the "square" is a strand of hair. The bottom appears to be a very light wispy scratch that I can hardly see with the glass.
     
  21. LostDutchman

    LostDutchman Under Staffed & Overly Motivated Supporter

    Just that general area. I would have highlighted the E as well but since we were already talking about the base of the E I didn't see a need to highlight it. I would say that the area from the base of the E to the rim is suspect to me.
     
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