I am wondering if others fall into the same routine after photographing their coins. I'll look at a new piece visually and then with a 10 power loupe. I'll grade it and then write my narrative. I'll photograph it for documentation, and according to typical grading procedure, I could stop there and leave well enough alone; but I don't. Inevitably I'll look at the pictures and will usually lower my grade because of the added detail now available. The idea of seeing the entire coin enlarged, as opposed to just a portion through a loupe, is just to appealing to me. I honestly can say I have never up graded a coin doing this. So am I in reality understating the value of the collection? Do others do this or do you leave your initial assessments alone?
Excellent question sam. I am with you on this one completely. Large resolution images really bring out every little flaw. I am curious on how some people will respond to this.
Maybe the best answer is that the professional graders grade the coins without magnification. i.e., they only use their naked eyes.
To a degree Sam I agreee with you. Sure the pics make it easier to see things because the image is so much bigger. But a trained eye can see most if not all of the same things if they just take the time to look at the coin under a good light. I can't tell you how many times I have wished that I could sit down with folks side by side at a table and show them what I see on a coin when I look at it. I've done it with a few people, they are amazed at what they can see when I get done. And that's with coins they have owned for years, and yet they never saw it. But anyway, to your point. Yes, over-magnification (and that's what ya get with pics) will cause many to be overly critical of their coins and thus under-grade them. That is precisely why you should never use anything stronger than a 5x glass when grading. And even then, you only use that 5x glass about 5% of the time. The rest of the work is done with your naked eyes.
Im glad you asked this. I was wondering the same thing. It makes sense that grading would be done with no to very little magnification after all even the most pristine coin would see its perfection melt away under high magnification.
* Naked eye, tilt - twist, get some different light views on the surface, filp and repeat. With enough practice you'll arrive at the grade in a few seconds. * A quick check with mag, like Doug says, 5x max....I really like 4x, that's my go-to. * Only use high mags to pick out doubled dies, varieties, errors, etc. There's nothing wrong with comfirming using a picture. Just don't let it be your guide because people don't buy pictures. I don't care how good the picture is, that's not what a coin usually looks like in hand. It's but a sliver of information! That said, sometimes I do miss things and on occasion will catch them in my pictures.
I am from the newschool. everything I am learning about coins comes from a digital medium.. I have learned to ignore the magnified flaws when viewing images, while they are still distracting I can easily overlook them. When a coin comes in the door, I image it first. Now I know everything about that coin from a near microscopic level. I can easily see a MS66RD coin with tons of luster. I can magnify and see what causes that luster. And I can see a MS66RD coin with a lack of luster and see why the luster is gone. I can find certified coins that clearly have some type of lacquer or other coating that the graders missed.. click on this pic twice. When Buying Coins - I can look at images like on Heritage that everyone raves about: And then compare them with my own and know a lot better of what garbage their photos are likely to hide in other words what to be more careful about and to look for in the future. I don't have to use my lousy eyesight to squint through some tiny little piece of plastic with my shaky hands, while trying to hold back a sneeze because my arm hair just tickled my nose, while adjusting the angle of the desk lamp that just fell to the floor only to find that I recently stuck a finger print on the lens of the loupe and I never did get the coin in focus!! NO THANKYOU! I prefer to sit comfortably and use other known digital examples for comparisons if I have a question about the coin in hand.... The databases grow larger all the time. which quite coincidently led to the thread regarding the 26-S thread I recently posted.. Now don't get me wrong - I look at them in hand - just so I can get a feel of what all these old timers that have been doing for decades, with out the use of any new technology, those who swear there will never be a better way........ I frequently pull the coins out and compare them side by side and reference to images. It's quite funny, with some recent show purchases, I just didn't know what I had until I got home and imaged them. I don't trust my eyes.
really? so, you look at pictures with something other than your eyes?? Cool! but I don't really believe you, prove it!
I generally look at my coins in a very dimly lit room and from a few feet away. Thats why every coin I have is ms66 or higher in my opinion. I should work for SGS.
Photos are very good for judging minute problems with coins. However, you have to learn just how many of these are OK for a particular grade, or else the tendency is to overgrade. Photos typically do a poor job of showing luster -- and it's luster that affects a grade more than just about any other factor in AU/MS grades. Coins are best graded, in my experience, by unaided eye -- then confirmed through closer inspection via a loupe or photograph.
I agree that luster is the most important factor in the mint state grades and is very difficult to capture in photographs. In addition, using oversized photographs definitely makes what are very minor imperfections appear to worse than they are and in the end leads to undergrading. I have found that photographs of 300x300 pixels work well at presenting minor coinage as it appears in hand while still being large enough to see and grade properly. Whenever people show huge photos online, I shrink them down to give myself a more accurate representation of how the coin actually looks in hand.
O M G! You are something else Leadfoot. EyeEatWheaties, I think that like you learned about the Heritage coin that you rephotographed, not all images are the same. And even if you look at an image with your eyes, the coin is never the same 100% in hand. A still photo is nothing like grading it in hand while tilting and looking to see if it has a cartwheel effect/full luster or hidden damages. And by over grading, what good is that doing to your collection? I too like to look at large images but not prefer grading with my trusty little glass eye piece As for you having shaky hands and too much hair on your hands/arms well that's too funny and a different topic I guess. I would like to know what you use to take your images and make such huge pictures tho so I can use them for my personal collection and study the change of toning with time a little better if you don't mind. PM me here if you would share your secret.
Man, you ruined another thread eyeeat! I thought we had this dicussion? Remember, the vast majority of vistors to the forum are using IE and the forum is broke...so everytime you post those pics we have to scroll.
