Is it legal?

My coworker went into a coin shop and asked one of the associates how much (if anything) his coin was worth. My coworker know nothing about coins just for the record. The associate then preceded to look said coin up in a book. He then stated to my coworker that he would give my coworker $850 for the coin. My coworker was stunned and said he just wanted to know how much it was worth if anything and that if he was going to sell it he needed to discuss it with his fiance.
He then leaves the store to go discuss it with his fiance.
My coworker goes back and agrees to the associates offer to buy the coin. Then leaves. A few hours after, he gets a message on his phone from the store asking him to call the coin store and that it was important. He calls the store back and they say that he needs to bring the money back because the coin they bought from my coworker was a counterfit. My coworker then becomes stressed because he has no background or education on coins as stated above.
He says he can't do that and the store says that he must and that they can set up a payment plan for him. He says he's going to have to think about this because he needs to make sure everything is legal. The store then keeps calling my coworker and asking him to bring the money back and then threatening to report it to the police and demanding he bring the money back and just excessive calls to my coworker.

I wold like to know if the coin store has any legal right to demand the money back when they at first varified the value of the coin, then offered to buy it from my coworker which he then accepted?

 

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does he have a receipt?

 

No he doesn't. The store bought the coin from him.

 

Is there a record of the transaction at all?

 

Ethically, I think it was the dealer's responsibility to ensure the coin was genuine before he bought it. We are supposed to be the 'experts' in that situation, and when I have cocked up like that, normally it would be chalked down as a learning experience. However, I think the ability to use some discretion is be warrented though. If we thought he was a crook who was deliberately trying to rip us off, I think we should call the police and get our money back and have the crook locked up, but if it is just some little old lady selling a coin she found in her late husband's desk draw and hasn't a clue what she has. TS for us because we should have known better...

 

I think your coworker should document the extortion attempts against him and report them to the authorities. He has absolutely no way of knowing if the coin was switched by the dealer.

The thing we all learn early is that once a coin changes hands or is removed it's certified slab it is the property of the buyer. Coins have no identification numbers, so it's buyer beware. IMHO

gary

 

Exactly, if your coworker really knows nothing about coins, they would never be certain the dealer isn't switching coins. The dealer is the expert in this case and they shouldn't be paying $850 for a coin if they aren't sure it's genuine at the time of the transaction.

 

surely a dealer can tell at first sight if a coin is genuine or not? and shouldn't agree a purchase until the coin has been validated. that said i can empathise with the dealer, if someone sold me a counterfeit then i would demand my money back as well.

 

Welcome to CT! It does not sound as if your co-worker has any legal obligation to return the money to the dealer. Who knows if the coin is legit or not? TC

 

The vast majority of fakes are easy to spot at first glance, particularly if the dealer is a specialist in the type of coin it is trying to imitate. However, some fakes are excellent, and have fooled major dealers and auction houses. There was a famous case many years ago of some excellent Apollonia Pontika drachms, (known as the 'Black Sea Hoard') which fooled many specialists, and still remain controversial today. It took a long time for some dealers to accept that they were forgeries (and now part of our 'black museum' collection).
I have spotted some forgeries myself which took me in at first glance, and we ended up buying them. Unfortunately, upon closer inspection, we came to the conclusion that they were indeed fakes, and very good ones at that. None of us can honestly claim that we know everything there is to know about coin forgeries...

 

If the store owner files a complaint with the police, it is very possible that your friend will risk being charged with attempting to pass a counterfeit coin and be forced to, not only return the money, but have the coin confiscated as well. Is it really worth it to possibly have this criminal charge on his record and have to spend who knows how much in legal fees?

You didn't say how your friend came to acquire the coin, but I think he should return the money and have the coin examined by one of the grading services (assuming that it is uncertified). If it is certified, then he should file a claim with the grading service that certified it.

Chris

 

I'm with you Gary...the chain of custody has been broken so the Dealer owns the coin.

Btw, does the OP know the type and date of the coin? ...just interested to know which coin "fooled the experts". That's gotta be a $1500+ coin, retail. Is it worth that much due to its rarity or bullion content...(I've never met a Dealer without a scale).

 

Sounds to me like either the associate at the store wasn't the owner and/or they figure they'll try the old switcharoo.

 

I tried a little experiment a few years back... I purchased a fake 90% silver bust dollar from one of the well known eBay sellers of replica coins. The picture in the auction showed "COPY" stamped into the coin. When it arrived, it was unstamped (no surprise there... almost all replicas coming out of China are unmarked). Now this coin looked pretty good to me; the weight was correct, I assumed the alloy to be correct, the wear patterns were correct, the patina was correct, the edge lettering was correct, etc. So off to the local coin store. The owner examined the coin carefully.. gave it the "ring" test, weighed it, used the 10X loupe on it... and then proceeded to over me $950 for it. Then I gave him him the bad news, and we had a fifteen minute conversation about the quality of counterfeit coins entering this counrtry. Listen, you can read the experiments Susan Headly did at the F.U.N. convention a few years back which appeared as a two part article in Coin World. If anyone thinks a dealer can't be fooled at times (and even an occasional TPG) they're not living in the real world.

 

Yes the dealer can request the return of the money. Even though your co-worker has no knowledge of coins , if the coin was a fake there was no deal. Your co-worker can not pass legal title if the coin is fake. Of course the dealer runs the risk of having your co-worker declare that the coin the dealer is trying to return is not the same coin he was sold. But what it boils down to is that it is not legal to sell a counterfeit except possibly AS a counterfeit Even though the co=worker doesn't know coins, he sold the coin as a real coin based on the dealers comments. If it wasn't real then the transaction is void.

 

I feel it is the dealers responsibility to ensure authenticity of the coin prior to purchase. Given that the coin has changed hands and the transaction is, for all intents and purposes, complete, tough ish for the dealer. Expensive lesson.

If your friend has a conscience, I'd suggest he give back half the cash and keep the rest.

 

...again OP, what coin are we talking about? Inquiring minds would like to know. :scratch:

 

I'm beginning to wonder about some of you guys. If this were an eBay seller trying to pass off a counterfeit coin, you'd want him strung up by his privates. You are also assuming that the "Associate" is a full-time, trained professional numismatist, but you don't know that either. For all you know, he may just be a part-timer who does little more than watch the store while the boss is out, and when he showed his "great purchase" to the boss, he got a lot more than just an education in spotting counterfeit coins. YOUR COWORKER FRIEND SHOULD RETURN THE MONEY! Do unto others.........

Chris

 

:welcome: I would advise your coworker to contact a lawyer. Seeing that there was no proof of sale i do not believe there is any obligations to return it. I would also advise your coworker the next time he goes to try and sell it take a picture of the front back and side of the coin before selling it. Hope this helps! :thumb: