What do you want to know about buying and selling at coin shows?

Some of this is answered above. And to clarify, I am discussing an experienced "collector" rather than dealer.

An experienced buyer will know exactly what he is looking for, what his budget is and/or what he is willing to pay, what the value of and/or market is for the coin, but most importantly, an experienced buyer will KNOW HOW TO GRADE COINS!

An experienced buyer will ask to see a coin he is seriously interested in, examine it carefully under good light, then if he is interested in it, will ask me what my "best" price is. Sometimes I have room in a coin, sometimes I don't. Sometimes the experienced buyer will counter, but when I give a price, that's usually what I want for the coin.

As for inexperienced buyers, personally for me, here are some things I think you should NOT do:

• Don't ask to see a bunch of coins unless you are serious about buying
• Don't ask me to show you coins just so you can compare them to your coin
• When I give you a price, don't tell me what the Grey sheet (wholesale) price guide says that coin is worth - I already know that
• Don't tell me what you'll pay for the coin (my coins are all clearly priced)
• Don't counter me with an insulting grossly low price - this will end any further negotiating
• Don't point out all the flaws of a coin or tell me why the price is too high
• Don't tell me that you can buy that coin cheaper from the dealer down the aisle, I will simply tell you that you should go buy that coin

By the way, ask if I take credit cards or checks before negotiating for a coin.

p.s. Let me just add something. I had a guy this weekend come up to me, tell me that he had a bunch of later date Lincoln cents that he picked out of rolls and each had something "interesting" or unique like an extra shadow on the back, or what looked like doubling on the motto, etc. He then asked me what I thought he should do.

Ok, that may sound like an easy question to answer, but it's not. I have no idea what he means, why he saved these - does he mean how should he store them, does he want to sell them, should he keep looking for more, should he hold onto them, does he want me to grade them and appraise them?

This guy had no idea what he wanted to do and wanted me to tell him, but I felt it wasn't up to me to decide that for him. After a lot of prodding and questioning, I finally gathered that he wanted to know if what he was saving was valuable so he could sell them (they were not).

So my point is, know what you want to do before you approach a dealer - don't go in blindly with no idea what your intention in showing a dealer coins. A dealer doesn't usually have the time to be your coin psychiatrist!

 

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Trading is common, but for me it depends on the coin. If I have a coin on consignment, I do not usually take a trade for that coin since I have to give cash to my consignor. I will take coins in trade if I need and like them. Trading is a good way to get new stock. I just did a typical trade at Long Beach. A regular customer has been upgrading from AU to mint state coins and brought all his nice AU coins that he wanted to upgrade, and I gave him credit towards mint state coins he wanted to buy. That's a win/win for both of us.

If you bought a particular coin from me and it is still in its original holder, I often will give you the price you paid (if I know it) less a certain percentage. I prefer to give credit and, depending on the coin, I may even give you a higher amount in credit than cash. However, I don't ALWAYS take my previously sold coins back because I may already have 10 of that same coin and simply don't need it in stock, or it may have been sold as a problem coin with a much lower price, and simply don't want that coin back.

 

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions!!!

So they do their research ahead of the show just like the dealer does or should. They know what they want and know what they are willing to pay to get it.

I am going to my 1st big show in the summer and will make sure to do plenty of research before hand!

So, it sounds like the inexperienced will not know value or how to grade and thinks they can haggle like they are shopping a market in Mexico. LOL - these are the ones I am sure make dealers question why they picked a job that has them selling to the general public.

Have you as a buyer ever come across a coin you really liked and decided you wanted but it wasn't a piece that you expected to see and didn't know the value of. How did you as an experienced dealer handle buying it without knowing the value of it?

I know you are focused in 1 specific area and that helps to know what your limit are when it comes to prices. For the buyer that is walking around a show that sees something they did not have on their buy list, it has to happen regularly.

What percentage of dealers take credit cards or checks? I would think it's pretty small and if it is you would think the buyer would know better. If many dealers do accept plastic then I could understand how an assumption could be made. Just out of curiosity do you have a sign for you table that says cash only?

Thanks again, this is a great thread!

Darryl

 

Thanks so much for the question and answer session. Now another question or two if you do not mind. Does Rick Snow have a collection? Never heard one mentioned, but it leads to the next question. How tough does is it become to separate the collector from the dealer in your case? I have heard a couple of dealers say if they started collecting they would go out of business(keeping the really choice coins - maybe an exaggeration) rather than selling. Seems like you do just fine at both.

 

Definitely, especially since I like errors and varieties, and beautiful toning - all of which there are no specific pricing guides to assist you. Here's just one example of a coin that was offered to me (for my personal collection). It is a very popular variety in a high grade, but has the most unique toning I've ever seen on a penny. If this is a coin that appeals to you and you could use in your collection, how do you value this? I already had an 1894/94 in the same technical grade, but to me, compared to this coin, mine was a "dog." And again, as I mentioned above, I knew that if I liked it, others would too, and if I thought it was spectacular, which I did, others would too! And the seller knew this as well. We eventually agreed on a price that I was comfortable with, but was way over what I had paid for my "dog" (which wasn't a dog at all, just not as pizzazzy as this one).

Here is my old 1894/94, followed by the one I currently have in my collection.

I really don't know the percentage of dealers who take credit cards, but I would guess it's less than 50% if you take into account both small and large dealers. More often, the larger dealers will take credit cards. I do not because I really can't afford the extra 3% it costs per transaction, but I do take checks and thankfully haven't been burned yet. I don't think I've seen any signs that say "cash only" but of course, cash is king as they say!

 

I have heard Rick mention that does collect coins but I don't think he has a specialized "collection." I'm sure he'd be happy to elaborate if you want to ask him yourself. He's very approachable.

For me, it's not tough to be both a collector and a dealer because, simply, I keep the best (in my eyes) for my own collection. So when I find an especially nice coin that I may "need" for my collection, I keep it or if I already have that date, I compare it to the one I have and will keep the better of the two and put the other one in my inventory to sell. I try not to keep more than one of each date unless the second one has something special and different like an error or variety. If you're interested, I keep photos of each of the coins in my personal collection on my website.

 

Yes - he is a very nice person. Only talked to him once on the phone - sent him a cherry pick to sell for me. Never thought to ask that question.

I know I keep your site book marked.

 

How do you package and transport your coins if your flying. Is it all carry-on? Do you trust checking it like other luggage?

 

All I can say is WOW, that is a stunning coin! Congrats! It sounds like there was some negotiation that took place.

I think this is the hardest part to understand how to navigate. How to approach this process without being disrespectful. In some local shows I have been to when a dealer has given me a price I felt was too high I have just thanked them and walked away. I am sure it is an experience thing and hopefully you get better with time. I have to wonder if I was more experienced at the process if some of those situations would have turned to sales that we both would have been happy with.

As a dealer, when you interact with a collector and you can tell they do not have a lot of experience buying at shows, do you approach them differently to help them understand why you have priced it the way you have?

Just once I have had a dealer say "I know based on what you are looking for you will really like this coin." He spent some time talking about how he picked up the coin and why he felt the price was set right. The price was fair IMO and I picked it up on the spot without any further discussion about price. That type of experience has been the exception and not the rule.

I have a tendency to walk up and ask to look at a coin, usually I know what my budget is but unfortunately in the past my grading skills were probably not as good as they should be in those situations. Then I ask for a price and from there it either shut down the conversation or I bought it. For me, it would be more comfortable to have the dealer says; I grade this coin at MS62, the fields are clean and the toning is subtle and appealing. Based on these factors my price is X (firm) and for this coin I am certain it will be gone before the show is over. Or, I have quite a few of these in my stock and even though the grade is x I will give you this price to make us both happy. It will be hard to find a better price in this grade. It's that bed-side manner we want from our doctors that also goes a long way with our dealers. Your thoughts? I hope you do not mind my questions. BR ~ Darryl

 

Yes, I carry it all on - I have never had to check my coins, and probably would decline to fly if for some reason there wasn't room for me to carry them on. I only bring what I can carry on to a flight, and this is probably the most stressful part of flying to coin shows - not knowing for sure if there will be room for my bags on a particular flight.

 

I try to be sensitive to newer collectors if I can tell, but it will also depend on how busy I am at the time. If I have time, I will gladly help educate my customers, especially if they ask. As a collector, you should not be afraid to ask, just be polite and sensitive to my time with other customers. And it doesn't hurt to ask if I can do any better on the price. I prefer that you don't tell me what price you'll pay, but just ask if there is room, and don't expect that a dealer can always reduce a coin and then get cranky when they can't.

I do have to say, however, that sometimes it is very frustrating when the collector doesn't know what they want. I can help collectors and educate them, but they have to have some idea of what they are looking for, and have a realistic idea of the value of the coin they are wanting. Too many collectors have MS65 taste and an XF budget, and you're wasting both of our time if that is your true expectation.

For instance, I often have collectors tell me they are looking for a particular coin in MS60. That tells me they want an uncirculated coin but don't have a high budget, and that they aren't necessarily looking for quality. Even though they didn't ask, I will explain to them that in my opinion MS60 is not necessarily a good grade to collect, that they should either look for coins in AU58 (less pricey) or MS62/63 (if they really want uncirculated) because a coin that is graded MS60 means that it is usually damaged, hairlined, spotted, scratched, cleaned, blotchy, dinged, artificially toned, etc. In other words, it's simply an unc coin with lots of "issues." Whereas an AU58 coin is the highest quality circulated coin with just the slightest of rub, and MS62/63 coins usually have only minor issues and can still be quite attractive.

 

I guess that he answer is yes but boy, it must be hard to make a trading profit as a dealer when you include the purchase price of the coin, travel costs, hotel costs, meals, coin show costs, etc. Can you really make a living in this business? What percent fail in the first year?

 

Of course a dealer can't only do trades, cash has to be exchanged more often than trades. And yes, there are a lot of costs associated with any business, but if you are savvy, knowledgeable, courteous, and have something of quality people want to buy, I think most people can make a decent living at it. It has taken me many years to build up my reputation and an inventory that will sustain me. To be honest, I made more money when I was a litigation paralegal, but I make enough selling coins, and I absolutely love doing what I do now!

Sorry, but I have no idea how many coin dealers try and fail.

 

I think that is great advice and explained perfectly! Thanks

Everyone goes through a learning curve and this is a lesson that is probably often learned the hard way. I can understand your frustration but I am sure the majority of new collectors have unrealistic expectations when they 1st start going to shows. Doesn't make it easier for you when you are trying to make the best use of your time.

Also great advice that a new collector would just not understand without someone taking the time to explain it!

Thank you for you time and open responses. I hope I can play a game of pool or poker and buy you a rum and coke at some point in the future! It would be a real pleasure to meet you!

 

I will look forward to meeting you at a show sometime, and would welcome talking coins while playing pool or poker and having a drink!

 

Once again, Charmy and one of her great threads. Excellent questions asked, great answers and advices given by a great dealer.

 

Thank you for taking your time , in giving some of us the " Skinny " on your business approach .

 

I thought I'd give this thread a bump because I have recently had a few people ask some of the same questions that were discussed here, and thought it would also be helpful to some of the newer CT collectors. If after reading through this thread any of you still have more questions, feel free to ask and I will respond as best I can.

 

Whats with all these crazy toned coins? I see them on ebay and at shows and shop and while they look stunning how can I be sure they werent tampered with somehow? ie chemicals or who knows what. I dont know what you would have to do with a coin to make it look like some of the ones I have seen.

Glad I found this thread, I am really new to this if you cant tell.

 

Todd, if you do a search on CT for toned coins, you'll find a zillion threads about natural vs. artificial toning on coins. And it is not easy for even more experienced coin people to tell the difference. There are a lot of ways to artificially tone coins which I won't go into, but some of the ways that coins can tone "naturally" (however you define that term) include storing them in old tissue paper, cellophane, sulfur envelopes, in old coin books, and even in old wooden drawers. For copper, these storage methods have created some beautiful and colorful toned coins.