I need help identifying an Error on an 1890 Indian Cent!

Hi Folks,

I recently picked up an 1890 Indian Cent that appears to be Double Struck or pre-Struck before being struck with the Dies! Any help would be appreciated on identifying what type of Error classification this is before I send it in for grading, slabbing and attributing.

The coins weighs in at a normal range of 3.1 grams. It is 19.33 millimeters in diameter which is slightly larger than normal but probably within tolerance.


Thanks...Frank

 

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Hi,
Of course it is very difficult to determine what it is without having the coin in hand. I suggest that it might be some kind of counterstamp done after the coin was struck. The coin is misshapened a little bit and indicates that it was indeed struck by something.

I have seen seals that would be used to wax seal an envelope like this with a scalloped edge. This is pure guesswork but whatever it was likely happened after it left the mint.

The coin is worn but there appears to have been something that would correspond to where the "center" of the possible counterstamp is that looks like lettering.

It's tough to say just what this is but a counterstamp of some sort that has worn to a point where you can't see all the detail comes to mind.

Have Fun,
Bill

 

Thanks for the insight so far! I am really having trouble with this one!

I have a theory about what happened and will have to do some more investigating to see if I am correct or not. I will give you my theory and see if you think that I am getting close, I am right or totally off the ball here! I believe that the coin was struck with the Dies while something (some type of washer, button, medal, foreign coin or something else) was between the Reverse Die and the coin, then the coin was struck again (as most are) after the object was dislodged which somewhat corrected the Strike. This theory is the only one that I can think of that would leave so much detail on the coin and still have the evidence of the error (Strike Through).

Please let me know your thoughts and theories.


Frank

 

This coin was vandalized outside the mint. It's certainly not a broadstrike as the rim and denticles are still located at the margin of the coin. It appears some sort of punch was used to decorate the obverse.

 

Mike,

I don't believe that this is the case with this coin! The coin was struck with or Struck Through something on the Reverse which pushed out the Obverse, thus the image around the Indian's Bust which is obtuse. However, with the height of the obtuse image underlying the Indian's Bust, the details in the correspinding areas of the Reverse and even the Obverse would surely have been obliterated. That is why I believe that the coin was Struck Through a foreign object that was between the coin and the Reverse Die before being struck again with the object dislodged and the Dies unobstructed. The lack of obliteration of most of the details on both the Obverse and Reverse and such a slight impression from the Strike Through on the Reverse, lead me to my deduction of the above.


Frank

 

Because the dimensions of the die face and design are fixed, it is impossible to get proportional expansion on both faces so that the coin is larger than normal but, at the same time, the rim and denticles remain at the outer margin of the coin. Because the die face is flat, it is impossible to get the kind of 3-dimensional warping and distortion that you see. My opinion remains unchanged.

 

Hi,
I agree with Mike, the scenario laid out makes no sense based upon the images. The coin is distorted and was definitely damaged after it left the Mint.
Bill

 

New Pictures Posted!

I took some new and better pictures of the 1890 Indian Head Cent! Let me know what you all think. I am still not convinced as to the cause of the error or damage and if it is Mint or Post-Mint!


Frank

 

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this is a vandalized coin and not a mint error.

 

Hi,
The picture doesn't change my view either. It is tampered with somehow and after it was minted.
Have Fun,
Bill

 

Thanks for all of the insight! I was hoping beyond hope for a better outcome but that's life!


Frank

 

Your IH put me in mind of this coin so I dug it out. I know it's post mint damage but always wondered what it was made with and what it's supposed to be.

The strike thru above is legitimate.