Well it happened :(

the best part (get ready to cringe) is that I opened the box and they just emptied out onto the table....yeah...good times!

 

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Stop ! you almost made me swallow my teeth ! LOL

 

When it comes to filing a claim, EITHER may file. I am going through it right now, as a BUYER, on a non-ebay, coin related item (an Nevada Centennial medal, R-5, 2,526 minted HK-19, NGC MS62PL.....$600 worth of item). Package never delivered, no pink-slip left by the carrier, BUT signed for as 'delivered' at 9:14pm, ) by a postal employee, on a signature confirmation package (who delivers mail, or gets it delivered, at 9:14PM???...they are SUPPOSED to be long gone, so this employee may have been going through the 'steal me' items...those items with 'insured' tags). A postal employee, on a signature confirmation package, signing for my package....STUPID!!! The Office of Inspector General is involved, due to the employee signing for it. You will need proof of what was lost (a copy of the item's image) and a copy of your proof of payment (they will accept a copy of your Paypal payment, from the Paypal sight). However, don't expect them to rush a decision. In my case, where there was a signature (even though it wasn't anyone from my house), automatic decline (not even 24 hours, and declined). Appealed it, and was told that the person that signed for it can/will lose their job (non-authorized signee...why on earth she signed her own name is beyond me). The USPS HATES to pay off on claims (in my case, they are going to...haven't yet, but was told by the Boston regional office...the ones that got the OIG involved). But you may want to contact your regional USPS office for extra help, notify them, have them have a record of it in THEIR system....and they WILL help. Had I not contacted them, I would have eaten the $600, as they have 30 days on an appeal...after 50 days, no decision...called the regional office, and was told they needed the copies, which I ATTACHED to my online claim. Having a human interface with the claims dept (which is in St. Louis, MO) will/should help dramatically. If it's ebay related, as was said, ebay will refund you, and make seller go for the claim....but regardless, whoever files, they will need an image of the item, with the selling price, as well as a copy of payment....but if it's not ebay, load your gun and call the regional office. If it's ebay, and seller needs to file, seller may need a statement from you, also. Good luck!!!!

 

^^^^ it was an ebay sale, no reason for the OP to go through all that . He just needs to file a SNAD and that will be that. the seller should and will have to file to see his money back.

BTW this is another reason to or ask for PayPal to be used in transactions. PayPal now extends protection for most items outside of eBay, your coin would have been covered in other words.

 

Personally, I don't think it's stupid in all circumstances, to ship rolls in bubble mailer that's not reinforced, but I do believe that if you're shipping rolls in a hard plastic tube, regardless of the denomination or how many rolls you're shipping, you absolutely need to reinforce the bubble mailer if you're going to use one. However, in my opinion, if you're selling the coins in a paper roll and you're only shipping one roll, than it may be a good idea to reinforce the bubble mailer, but it's not an absolute necessity to reinforce the bubble mailer unless you're shipping two or more regardless of whether the tube is made with hard plastic or paper. But if I'm only shipping one roll of pennies or dimes in a paper tube, I won't even bother to reinforce the bubble mailer because the packaging arrives in good enough condition to still have all the coins in the package every time.

I know this because I've never had any complaints about my bubble mailers getting arriving at it's destination damaged and the roll of Mercury Dimes I've sold on ebay, missing from the package as a result of the damage to the bubble mailer. After reading this thread, I will definitely be making modifications to the way I ship rolls of Mercury Dimes to make the packaging more secure, but at the same time, I don't want to go overboard trying to reinforce the packaging because the longer I spend on the packaging, the longer it'll take me to actually send the package and that's probably how most ebay sellers feel.


As a seller, I can tell you that it's quite a balancing act to try get just the right amount of package reinforcement combined with the absolute most cost efficiency combined with making sure the coins get to the customer as quickly as possible given the selected shipping speed.

The reason it is a major balancing act is because ebay's policies for sellers puts massive pressure on sellers to master the balancing act. Unfortunately, ebay inc puts the biggest emphasis within the seller's shipping process on how quickly sellers can ship merchandise. They don't care if the packaging was reinforced or even if proper packaging was used unless the item falls out of the package and, as a result, gets lost. If you wan't absolute proof that ebay inc doesn't give a damn about proper packaging unless the item is lost due to poor packaging, just look at the details you're allowed to give a rating for to determine the DSRs. There is a rating option for Item as Described, Communication, Shipping Time, and Shipping Charges. Not a single option available for proper packaging. This should prove, once and for all, that ebay inc doesn't give a damn about proper packaging unless the item gets lost in the mail because of the packaging. There's another word I'd rather use instead of damn, but I think Dave the admin will be ****ed off if I used that word.

They just don't care because the only thing the ebay policy makers care about is sellers getting as many items they sell on ebay shipped in the shortest time period possible because they know that as soon as they ship recently sold items, the seller will be listing more items, which means more money for ebay inc. It's all about the money, that is the only thing the CEO of ebay cares about, therefore, he/she tells those who write policy for ebay to make sure sellers are pressured to ship items out as quickly as possible and make it as attractive to buyers as possible, through the buyer protection policy. They don't care if items get lost in the mail due to poor packaging, all they care is that sellers spend as little time as humanly possible, on packaging, so that they can get more items listed, therefore, ebay inc makes more money from listing fees.

 

^^^^ not sure what that was all about, but as a buyer and a seller, I want my item as soon as I pay for it and I want my buyers to have their paid for items, equally as quick. I don't charge for shipping and I look for sellers who ship at no additional charge. so I have a different opinion on the whole shipping thing. I know that if got an uncirculated roll in a mailer, regardless if it fell out, I would be irked.

You sell rolls of dimes? Why would you NOT use the small flat rate box? cost has to be close to the same. the boxes are free. Your buyer is going to likely get it quicker, safer etc etc isn't that worth the extra percentage point it might cost you in shipping?

 

I agree 100%. When I ship, I always tape all corners but this was obviously done by a USPS employee because there is a slit across the bottom.

 

Good advice!!

Having experienced these conditions on numerous occasions, I appreciate your post of facts rather than conjecture/hyperbole by uninformed. Your information is correct as submitted, but because of eBay/PayPal buyer protection imposed time constraints, it's generally imperative that the seller is promptly informed of the damage and intent to file a claim/case.

Sellers generally aren't motivated for prompt filing with the transport agent, and can't properly verify/submit the damaged package to proper authorities until the returned package is received, as is a general requisite for buyer protection.

I believe you'll find that if the buyer waits a couple of days after seller notification, and then initiates a damage claim to eBay, the process provides the seller with a definite time period for response/action. It's a "Catch 22" condition which eBay uses for the uninformed, where the seller generally can't act without the package having been returned, but the eBay clock continues. After the seller action period, has elapsed, the buyer should be able to escalate the claim to a case. Upon demanding buyer protection action/payment from eBay, and requesting prompt payment of ALL purchase funds paid, a return label can be obtained from eBay for prepaid return shipment with signature verification.

Upon the package being entered into the postal tracking system, the buyer can request payment in full including S/H, and the seller generally hasn't any choice but to accept this process.

I've found this to be the preferred method for teaching hostile sellers that proper packaging is an essential ingredient in the selling process.

I personally package rolls I've sold secured between 2 sheets of cardboard taped on all edges, 1" from the edge. The cardboard package is secured inside a padded envelope, also taped around the edges 1" from the edge on both sides, with a 2" tape band around the narrow dimension package center.

These processes have eliminated the eBay "time-out" condition where eBay isn't required to refund, and as a seller has eliminated the dreaded USPS package sorter destruction experience.

Rich :thumb:

 

I gotta give you props for this information. Very useful to rookies and professionals alike.

 

My point is, Ebay Inc doesn't care if the sellers use proper packaging because they just want the money from the seller fees. This puts undo pressure on the sellers to ship items as quickly and cheaply as possible and they don't give a **** what the buyers think unless they don't get the item they paid for. That is the point I'm making and that is why incidents like this happen when buying on ebay. The only thing Ebay Inc even cares about in terms of customer satisfaction is pacifying them when they complain.

They don't care if the seller provides the best customer service possible or if they're mediocre at customer service, the only thing they care is that the customer service skills of the sellers meet the absolute minimum expectations of the vast majority of the people who buy on ebay. For most people who buy on ebay, the expectation for quality of service is very low compared to the expectation of quality that is expected of the average person who buys on amazon. Ebay Inc doesn't care how good each seller's customer service skills are as long as buyers keep coming back. The solution to the problem is if you don't like the customer service skills from most ebay sellers, just stop buying or selling on ebay. If you currently sell on ebay, find other, creative ways to sell coins online. Isn't that what the open advertising section is for here on Cointalk? If enough people are tired of the low customer service standards that Ebay Inc encourages, they need to feel it in the wallet.

It is not 100% the fault of the sellers who have horrible customer service that they are that way because the ebay seller policies reward quick shipping even if the packaging is shoddy because it's all about the money and getting sellers to list more items so that Ebay Inc can go to the pay window sooner.

I have never gotten a call from Ebay seller support asking about my packaging and how I can improve the quality of my packaging. I have, however, gotten a call from Ebay seller support telling me about their scam called a shipping label printing service. I was told that I could get a discount of up to 20% on my postage fees by using ebay's scam shipping label service.

The reason ebay's shipping label service is a scam and a fraud is because I was told that they could save me up to 20% on my shipping label if I printed the shipping label through ebay. I did not get a single penny discounted from my postage costs! In fact, they charged me 19 cents for delivery confirmation, which they didn't even let me take that off before printing the shipping label so I could use one of my own deliver confirmation forms which I got from USPS for free. I decided to print the label anyway thinking that the 20% discount on my shipping label would be credited against my seller fees, it was not!!

Ebay's shipping label service is a scam and a fraud! Ebay doesn't give a **** about it's users because they only care about the money. The reason I haven't been using flat rate boxes up until now is because I was never told how much a flat rate box would actually cost and I've always thought it would have been at least one or two dollars more to ship a roll of silver Mercury dimes using a flat rate box than it would cost to ship it first class, but I guess I should compare the cost to use a small flat rate box with the postage when sending a "large envelope or flat" using first class, since that's the postage I currently put on those bubble mailers when sending Mercury Dimes.

 

It,s happen to the best of us!

 

My transaction WAS paid for with Paypal. I never use any other form of payment for numismatic related items....I won't even use the 'gift' option, as the 'gifting' option nullifies all buyer protection. Paypal refused the claim because there was a signature. Paypal simply runs the tracking number, and if it shows 'delivered' and 'signed for', they automatically decline the claim, even if it's signed by someone that doesn't live in your house. Even if you get a copy of the signature, and explain to Paypal the person doesn't live there, you don't know them, etc, it matters not...the seller/shipper followed the rules, there's a signature, that's that. of my item. I could still chargeback my CC, but don't want the seller to take the hit for the USPS's obvious theft. If they decided to decline the appeal, which I'm assured they won't, then a CC chargeback would then be in order...but the seller would take the hit, and in this case, neither buyer nor seller should have to eat the $600 for an obvious theft by a dishonest postal employee. It's getting bad, and seems the only safe way is registered, as each employee that touches it has to sign for it, so there is a paper trail. With simple delivery or signature confirm, there isn't, and with those stickers on the package, sometimes temptation is too great.

As an aside, it doesn't appear the seller in the OP's item used delivery confirm, he just used insurance. There are TONS of buyers on ebay that just wait to see that, and claim non-delivery. An insurance tag is NOT considered by Paypal to be confirmation of delivery, so, you ebay sellers, make SURE you have delivery confirm for up to $250, and signature confirm for anything over $250.

 

Are you saying that the BUYER can't file a claim? If you are, I suggest you call the USPS customer service line and find out the truth. The TRUTH is, and it's not 'hyperbole' or 'conjecture', as I AM informed, due to this current situation I am in the middle of, that the buyer CAN file the claim. Now that everything can be done online, if you have all the info (seller's complete name, address, etc), and the tracking number, the buyer CAN, in fact, file the claim. I am not trying to argue or anything, but as the buyer, I was able to file my own claim, and that action is supported by the regional offices (if anyone would like to verify this, I would be happy to give the direct phone number to the Boston regional office, and they will verify an addressee (or the buyer) CAN file an insurance claim. They think, and its good advice, that where the seller has the money, they may be lax in getting info out in a timely manner, just as imrich stated. Also, when it comes time to speak with a rep for info, wouldn't you feel more comfortable being able to speak with them, rather than being told they can only give the info to the person that filed? When you are the buyer, and you file the claim, all the info goes to YOU...they will talk to YOU on the phone...fact is, plain and simple, the BUYER, or ADDRESSEE CAN file the claim. Period.

edited for:

I agree, with an ebay item, file with ebay....but if it isn't ebay, and it does happen, noone will act faster at trying to get your money back than YOU will.

 

imrich.....just wanted to add....your shipping method is a great way to ship, the ONLY way, if you don't choose to use the 'small box Priority'. Your method with the mailer does, indeed, avoid the 'sorter', and can arrive in the same time frame as priority.

 

I Defer To Your Experience

I'm pleased that you've had positive experiences, differed results with USPS, UPS, eBay?. My experiences are those of a "male dolt" in a rural area where the "postmasters", UPS/eBay contacts are generally women with seemingly megalomaniacal complexes/attitudes, who have absolute control of system communications/efforts. I personally have had an indepth discussions with a postal inspector who told me that postal station control/efforts are generally relegated to the "postmaster". An experienced word of advice, don't ever use the term "postmistress" in conversing with this authoritative representative. LOL

I've had the similar experiences with USPS, UPS, and eBay when encountering these shipping problems, reimbursement situations. but defer to your positive? experience.

I've personally implemented the stated procedures in my post, based on my experiences, and information received from "authoritative" representatives. I don't want to have discussions similar to this, when proactive efforts, as I've outlined, can avoid the ramifications.

I'm sorry, but as a "Preferred Seller" with thousands of positive feedback, without shipping complaints (with a singular buyer statement that I must own stock in a tape company), I can't accept lame seller excuses justifying poor packaging efforts.

I may be "misinformed". and appreciate your experienced enlightenment.

Thanks, Rich :thumb:

 

Going back to the original post - it looks like that may have simply been sorting machine damage. Several responses have assumed that theft was involved, but a roll of coins in a bubble wrap mailer is a pretty unbalanced load. When going through a high speed sorting machine, it is very possible that the heavy item tore through the envelope.

I wonder what happens to items that are found loose inside sorting facilities. Do they end up at the unclaimed package auctions (possibly inside anonymous boxes)? I've always wanted to go to one of those and pick up a dozen items in the hopes of getting some coins way outside of my usual pay grade.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your shipping snafu... how is the investigation going?

Also, I'm glad to find another SCD collector! Do you collect the whole series, or just the Nevada issues?

 

I can pretty much assure you I know what happend here. The seller never sent the roll but insured it so when it arrived you wouldn't be out your money. So basically the seller has half of a heart. This happens more often then he thinks and the post office dont take things like this with a grain of salt.I mean honestly why would you insure a roll of nickels?

 

That's one hell of an assumption . The package received by the OP was cut at the bottom. I don't think the Seller did that as well.