As stated previously, I belong to several currency forums. One of the hottest topics recently on Collectors Universe (PCGS sponsored) is the topic of paper originality. Seems that PMG will use the EPQ desigination even if the note has a pinhole. The PMG grader states, "it depends on the location and severity". It's been also been stated that PCGS will NOT give out a PPQ designation if a note has a pinhole regardless of location & severity. What are your opinions ?
Steve, I'd also like to hear what your opinions are about this especially since you are bringing the discussion here with some background you are engaged with already elsewhere. You may have insights to share that can eliminate redundant questioning here. At what range of grades can the PPQ notation from PCGS be applied? It seems when comparing the two grading scales side-by-side that PMG are set up to allow an EPQ notation in lower grades, such as: 45 EPQ to 58 EPQ, whereas PCGS does not give this paper notation in those lower range of grades. Is this an accurate read of the two grading scales? Are there any examples of PPQ notations on labels graded below PCGS' Choice New 63? If a given note graded Choice New 63 by PCGS (or higher) had a pin hole and the PPQ notation, I would not buy that note based on the grading criteria I see listed on PCGS' grading scale. Instead, seek another example of the note without problems with an accurate label or pay accordingly, never mind the grade given by the TPG, though one may not be able to acquire said note with a lowered bid since many simply ask/bid according to the grade on the label overlooking certain grade conditions of the note inside the plastic. If a collector allows notes with pinholes in their collection, then perhaps they might try to submit the note for reholdering or cross-over to the other TPG, seeking a grade more appropriate to their understanding of the scale and personal assessment of the note. If PMG's scale permits EPQ with such lower quality notes and the TPG can reasonably explain their grade and the buyer agrees with said grade on the label then there seems less to question about the TPGs assessment and objectivity. Collectors and dealers alike have a responsibility when buying and selling to understand the various grading scales can be applied. They cannot simply defer to the label any more than pay for inaccuracies nor accept inappropriate quality of notes in their collection regardless of what the scale says. When all else fails, as these items cannot always fall neatly into perfect categories, one must trust their own self assessment of the note and understanding of grades, conditions and values. Bid accordingly and buy the note not the label. PCGS Currency Grading Scale PMG Grading Scale
My email to Chad Hawk (PMG grader); Hello CHawk, I am a US paper money collector, and am a member of several currency forums, ( PMG, PCGS, Coin Talk, etc) and currently there is a thread running on ASK PMG concerning the EPQ designation being given to notes with pinholes. I'm wondering how a pinhole can be considered "normal wear & tear" ? Many collectors question this opinion, and have even gone to the extent of returning notes purchased after finding a pinhole in PMG notes graded with EPQ and finding out they have a pinhole. This is currently a HOT topic over on the Collectors Universe (PCGS) forum. Is there any way you could elaborate, or defend this decision ? Steve in Tampa
The reply from Chad Hawk ; Steve, Pinholes are a case by case basis. Getting into the specifics can go on forever because there are so many variables. We stand behind our answer that there have been notes graded EPQ with a pinhole, but this all depends on several factors so it should not be applied as a general rule. Chad Hawk Grader chawk@pmgnotes.com Phone: 941-309-1001 ext. 205 Fax: 941-309-1002
As a collector of only Certified paper of both top TPG,s PCGS and PMG you will find the designations Similar PPQ and EPQ They pretty much mean the same thing, I,am puzzled because PCGS grades PPQ all the way down to 12PPQ, In other words the note it self can be of poor quality but the Paper itself stands out!
So far, neither Jason Bradford (President of PCGS) or Laura Kessler (VP of PCGS) have chimed in. Unlike CoinTalk, both the PCGS & PMG forums are inhabited, and inhibited, and somewhat biased by, what I would call "homers". I've found that forums sponsored by TPG's are sometimes less then truley open to any and all opinions.......it's like what my parents have always told me, don't bite the hand that feeds you.
I am not a TPG person at all, but just thought I would toss this out in case folks are not aware. France has issued brand new banknotes, already with pinholes in them. Ie, they will bundle 100 (?) notes together, fastened with a staple, and send them off to the bank. In this case, there are no notes without holes in them, even though one might find one that was never circulated. Dave
You have cited a big reason why I do not participate on those boards, not that I don't look for information there from time to time... plus it's just too time consuming to be here, there and everywhere. I like the flexibility on CT and many folks from those forums are here anyway. I still hope to hear your opinions/insights on this topic.
I should adjust my comments, I think I wasn't completely clear. The vast majority of French notes are released from the Banque de France with no holes. Many of those, once circulated, will acquire holes because the normal practice by merchants and bankers when dealing with circulating notes was to "pin" a stack of them together, similar to how a bank teller today might have a rubber band around a stack of 100 notes. With *certain banknote issues*, Banque de France stapled the new notes together before distributing them to branches, and thus the UNC notes (presumably a note that might ordinarily receive this "EPQ" or "PPQ" designation from a TPG) will have holes in them. An example is the Moliere note here - it is uncirculated, but has holes and cannot be found without them. Dave
Notes from India also are frequently found with staple holes because they are packaged that way by the printer.
