Tired Of Coin Docs, Whizzers & Destruction Of Them

cleaning

ok so i have some old canada large cents. they are green with age and it turns my stomach.if i clean them, will they have value as i faintly see good detail under the green crap. or do i let it stay as is and make on its a great coin in that condition...thats why i feel a scattered cleaning is ok. buy an antique car, bring it to a car show with a flat and some dents and rust. or restore it so it looks good, but hey maybe no one will buy it because its not in its 50 year old original state.im fairly new to collecting but when i post a nice pic.ask a question. first thing i get is,not an answer but. hummmmmmmmmm looks cleaned to me..rules And acceptability when it comes to the coin collecting world is one thing but being super picky is another..example look at this pic the coin was washed and cleaned off because of dirt. so is it condemed in some peoples eyes or is it acceptable..sorry i hate typing .but just a thought.observe
does this look aweful or?

 

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Who isn't tired of this stuff? But melting mass amounts on dates with HUGE mintages is fine.

 

Hmm. I'm seeing different things about PCGS and acetone.

Here's one statement:

http://www.pcgs.com/secureplusfaq.html

85. Q: Will acetone make our coins come back bagged for being dipped or altered or will it be OK?
DW: This is not really a Secure Plus question.... acetone can sometimes be used to remove foreign material from the surfaces without ruining the coin.

Here's another:

http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=6363&universeid=313

The PCGS Coin Sniffer uses dispersive X-ray spectrometry (EDX), Fournier Transform Infra-Red Spectral analysis (FT-IR), Raman Spectroscopy and other analytical techniques to detect the kinds of materials applied by so-called "coin doctors" to conceal problems with a coin or alter its surface to improve its appearance in an attempt to artificially increase the coin's value.

Commonly used organic materials applied to coins include plastic resins such as Bondo, putty, caulk, wax, lacquer, varnish, acrylics, paint, ink, acetone, glue, and citric acid.

If I had to guess, I would suppose that they're talking about treatments that involve acetone as a solvent for something else that's applied to the coin.

The techniques PCGS is introducing are powerful enough to detect very low traces of substances. But acetone is so volatile that I find it hard to believe they would routinely detect it. And, as the first quote says, it's not automatic grounds for bagging anyhow.

 

See, I don't hate NCS or people in general. I hate the fact that some people do this "even" knowingly that it is destrying the coin. See, to me and other collectors, cleaning and conservation is two of the same. I mean, there are those coins such as Ancient ones which I lean towards been cleaning candidates.
Everyone has different opinions and this is mine but I fully respect yours and others who want to do as they please with their coins.
If I saw someone in person, cleaning/conserving a coin, I would have a panic attack.....LOL

 

Odd.

 

As BadThad pointed out earlier, there's a difference between cleaning and conserving (at least in my opinion). If a coin has an active, corrosive agent on it, I see no problem with cleaning the substance off the coin in order to ensure the coin isn't utterly engulfed by ugly green splotching

 

Yeah, it is a pretty ridiculous name for a company so big like PCGS to use. I think they would've done better in finding a more appropriate name but like you said "it's a marketing ploy".

I wonder how good this machine does. I can't believe some people have even gone as far as using urine on coins...LOL Now that is crazy. Anyways, here's the link for the coin sniffer. http://www.coinlink.com/News/tag/coin-sniffer/

 

Impossible. Aceone is so volatile at room temperatures that there is NO TRACE left behind after its use and there's NO ANALYTICAL instrument that could detect that it had been used.

 

PCGS has no clue what they are talking about or doing. There's so many mistakes in their comments with respect to the science it's not even funny and it's way off professionally....including spelling mistakes, i.e. it's fourier transform NOT fornier. This is a high school level mistake! PCGS is doing nothing but trying to instill fear in the coin doctors with a bunch of scientific razzle dazzle. I'm really tempted to write them with the appropriate corrections to their statements....they are that far off.

For those that don't know me, I am an analytical chemist with 22 years of experience.

 

So the consensus on the Acetone is PCGS subjectively rejected the coin based soley on appearance and not some uber master machine?

 

Beauty should be in the eye of the beholder.

If you want a glob of metal, so be it.

You want a glistening jewel, it's yours.

You want history, preserve it.

I have scrubbed, soaked, rubbed (never whizzed for deception/resale) various coins.
Sometimes just to determine what it was......

Folks that try to deceive are different than those that seek to determine.

So if you have an investment vs appreciation problem....just try to be honest.

 

I see your point "do as you please with your coin", however, many people that do clean, whizz a coin say that it's for them, a purpose to lets say "preserving" it and that they wouldn't sell and if they did, they would be honest and mention it. But would they and do they when it is up for sell?

There are many (clearly noticeable) coins of this kind sold all over different sites and quite frankly, not many people admit to doing any cleaning or whizzing on the coins.

I have sold coins before with the description saying "This coin has questionable colors and I believe it to be artificially toned" and guess what happened? I got messages stating the coin was NT and or that I was ATing the coins. I said to myself "if I did such a thing, why would I admit to it? Maybe I'm just too honest or something, I don't know but I wouldn't like anyone to get something that was altered in any way.

Many people on the bay (for example) never state this on their listings. I don't like or support coin doctoring or cleaning practices but when I think a coin is not NT or questionable for that matter, I am one to say so and try my best not to even acquire them unless they look descent and I had to take them along with the rest of the lot (never bought from ebay or any site).

I have also seen many sellers (known ones) who do admit to it, whether the coin was consigned to them or is from their own collection and these are the people I admire as coin collectors.

So a question to Doc U Mint. Do you trust everyone who cleans coins that they will actually admit to cleaning or whizzing them when it comes time to sell?

 

i personally do not like cleaned coins per se, i also think it is disgraceful that coins are melted down because they are no longer used.

 

i disagree we as collectors are the current guardians of the coins in our collections, would you melt or clean an alexander the great tetradrachm because it's in your posession?????

 

totally agree with you, i do not clean my coins but where ther is a residue of pvc, dirt gime etc, i use acetone to remove the contaminant, but the acetone does not alter the natural patina of the coin, it only removes the crap!!

 

For me, the real value of this hobby, is the history, and aged beauty of the coin. for these reasons, i think the patina and toning make the coin. I even like the old, common date, well circulated Morgans.
The ms65 ms66 etc., are great investment coins, but I have American Silver Eagles that are prettier, but not rarer. I buy bullion for investing and coins for beauty.
I will sell my bullion eventually, but it will be very hard to ever part with my coins.

 

"So a question to Doc U Mint. Do you trust everyone who cleans coins that they will actually admit to cleaning or whizzing them when it comes time to sell"

Simple answer~

Either I like a coin or I don't.

My Mother (God rest her soul) had her own form of TRUTH/consequences.

I'm pretty sure my wife has spoken twisted truths.....as have I.

"No. Really. The dog stole my shoes and tracked the mud across the new carpet!!!"

Some damage is avoidable, some preventable but none is truly removable, is it?


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when i see a polished coin it makes my heart sink, why do people feel the need to detroy such a beautiful item by desecrating it!!

 

I agree with you and moneyer12 100%. I feel the same way every time I see this blue and purple Morgans and other coins on many sites. It hurts but I think this only happens to people who see collecting a little different.

I guess the people who do clean, whizzed or do other kinds of alterations to coins feel something different but all in all, I still think even if a coin is toned or has an unattractive patina is a coin which can be protected (to slow the process of its metal look) in many ways that it never has to be altered with anything.

Remember, one of the members mentioned that these coins don't circulate or are made again so eventually, if these coins keep getting cleaned and or altered in anyway, then what? That's all we're ever going to pass down in generations to come until there is no real, natural and eye appealing coins. These coins (IMO) will be lost forever of their natural ways, looks and so forth.

And Dok U Mint, bless your mothers soul but I have no idea of what point you tried to make but ok.