Question on IKE Dollars

I need a little help in distinguishing a few Eisenhower Dollar types.

1.) On the PCGS web site they list the 1972 Ike's as having Type 1 , Type 2 and Type 3. What is the difference in these three coins?

2.) On that same site they list the 1976 Ike Dollar as having two Type 1's in 1976, and in also in the year 1976 as having two type 2's. What do they mean by this?

Any help is appreciated.

Thank you, Jim

 

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I can handle the 76 question. Its the reverse lettering "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" Type 1 is thick and pointed. Type 2 is thinner and non pointed. Check out the pics, easiest to spot on the M and A.

 

Ike Dollars

Thank you for the information.

But just to be sure I understand this, the Type 1 Ike's were minted only in 1975, and the type 2 Ike's were minted only in 1976, right??? There were two Type 1's minted in 1975, and two Type 2's minted in 1976.

Thank again, Jim

 

I checked the red book for the 72 types. This has to do with the dies used. Here's what the RED Book says.....Low relief (var I) dies, with flattened world and three islands off Florida,were used for all copper-nickel issues of 1971, unc. silver of 1971 and most Copper-nickel coins of 1972.
High relief (var II) dies, with round world and weak or indistinct islands, were used for all proofs of 1971, all silver issues of 1972, and the reverse of some exceptional and scarce Philadelphia copper-nickel coins of 1972.
Improved high relief reverse dies (var III) were used for late 1972 Philadelphia copper-nickel coins and for all subsequent issues.

Hope this helps.

Note....I borrowed the pics in the previous post from eBay.

 

1976 type I coins were minted in early 1975. The lettering was changed during the year so type II coins were minted in later 1975 and all of 1976. Var I has a much lower mintage.

The 2 types of each might refer to the copper-nickel,P,D &S. ,and the Silver clad ,unc & proof. Just a thought.

 

IKe Dollars one more time

One more time please on the Ike Dollars to help me out a little more. As you can tell I am brand new to the coin collecting hobby.

In the Red Book (Which I just went out and purchased), I still have some questions, and I hope someone can help me.

The 1972 Variety I - Was this general circulation strike? Was it in a set or available in uncirculated condition from the mint? Is it by chance the blue or brown box Ike?

The same question for the 1972 Variety II.

The same question for the 1972 Variety III.

The 1972-D Ike Dollar listed in the Red Book: Was this one in a set? Was it a general circulation strike that could be purchased from the mint?

Thank for the information, Jim

 

Okay, you made me dig deep for this one. The red book is a great place to start, but one day you will have to pick up a copy of Breen's Encyclopedia of US coins. Not cheap, but worth its weight in gold.


1972 Type 1 Low relief

1972 Type 2 This latter die is from the master die used for proofs: indented outline around continental shore; West Indies as a sinfle mega island; FG free of tail. Presently rare.

1972 Type 3 Modified high relief as in 1973-74. No incuse outline behind lower r. Crater, 3 distinct Carribbean islands 1. of Florida.

1972-S Silver Clad Type 2 Sold seperately from the proof sets.

I hope that helps.

 

1971, 1972, 1973-1978



1976

 

A few loose ends here.
1972 Philadelphia were all cupro-nickel clad production runs for circulation, none in sets, none in silver.
1971 unc silver is a type 1
1972 unc (and proof) silver is a type 2
1973 unc (and proof) silver is a type 3

1972 Philadelphia type 2's, scarce as they are, were made from 2 different working dies.

 

Is there any estimate on the number of 1972 Type 2's out there? I've found two in the last month, that's why I'm wondering.

 

The latest estimates I have seen for the 1972 Philly type 2 are 20,000 for the March release
and 150,000 - 200,000 for the August release. Congratulations on finding your pair of them.

 

Very cool. Thank you for the closeup pictures!

 

I believe I have found a 1971 Silver Ike with NO island(s) around Florida...is this possible?

 

The 1971 silver proof has an incuse blob which is a little hard to see for the islands by Florida. Maybe that is what you are seeing.
Lee's post awhile back showing the type 2 islands overemphasizes what you usually see.
I have seen supposed type 2's for sale where the islands were missing due to damage.

 

This is a proof, and pretty good one. I looked at it under a 60x jeweler's lense and it's the same globe as the "type 2" globe posted in the pics above.

I'll have to get this http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6718247&sku=V140-0024 and take some pics of it. I have a few 1971 Ike's and the islands show on those and they aren't nearly as good of a coin specimen as this one.

*edit*

Ok, I ordered the microscope and it should be here by this weekend and I'll post pics then and we'll go from there, thanks.

*ps* if you are using the forum default setting for number of posts displayed per page, please see next page for pic of coin, thanks *

 

here is the best I could do with the digital camera I have atm, I'll post others once the microscope arrives

 

It's a 1971-S Silver Proof with a Type 2 Reverse.

ALL 1971-S Silver Proofs had the Type 2 reverse except for a limited number of 1971-S Proof coins which had a Type 1 Reverse. Only 2 are known to exist.

Labeling specific coins by Year can be somewhat confusing but eventually folks figure it out.

The reality is that the design varieties have unique numbers for Obverse and Reverse Design Varieties (ODV/RDV) as assigned by James Wiles in his book CONECA Attribution Guide to Eisenhower Dollar Die Varieties. (out of Print but Available for checkout from the ANA Library)

In the pictures I posted above, each Reverse Design Variety is actually labeled as a "Type" noting that Type 1, 2, 3, 6, and 7 refer specifically to Earths or "Eagle Landing" Reverses and Type 4 and 5 being the Bicentennial Reverse Types.

​

Folks rarely refer to a 1971-D as a "Type 1" coin even though that is exactly what it is. Remember, the circulating copper nickel and uncirculated 40% Silver coins were released well before the 40% Silver Proofs. Therefore this style of the "Eagle Landing" reverse is appropriately named "Type 1". When the Proofs were released, they became the Type 2 reverses.

During the 1972 Production run, a Type 2 die (intended for High Relief Proof coinage) was used, either experimentally or unintentionally in the production of Philadelphia coins. At the time, during 1971 and 1972, the US Mint was having major problems producing copper-nickel IKE Dollars. Primarily because the copper-nickel planchets were much harder than the older 90% silver planchets AND a full 36 years had elapsed since a silver dollar sized coin had been produced! The end result was having to use a much higher than anticipated number of dies just to meet production deadlines.

So, the Mint began experimenting with using a different die steel and different die manufacturing processes. Whether the Type 2 reverse die in the 1972 Production presses was accidental or experimental, nobody knows for sure but the end result is the different varieties for the 1972 Philadelphia coins.

Partway through the year, a new die steel WAS approved along with a different high relief reverse design. (Type 3). This enabled higher production volumes per die and better quality coins due to increases in striking pressures.

So at this point, we now have:

1971 - Type 1 Reverse
1971-D - Type 1 Reverse
1971-S Silver Business Strike - Type 1 Reverse
1971-S Silver Proof Strike - Type 2 Reverse
1972 - Type 1 Reverse
1972 - Type 2 Reverse
1972 - Type 3 Reverse
1972-D - Type 1 Reverse
1972-S Silver Business Strike - Type 2 Reverse
1972-S Silver Proof Strike - Type 2 Reverse

DEVIATION - 1971 and 1972 copper nickel (Cn) Proof IKEs did not exist. Nor were they announced and for whatever reason, probably tight production schedules and the desire to make some money, no dollar coins were put in either US Mint Uncirculated coins sets or US Mint Proof sets. Instead, uncirculated versions were made of 40% Silver clad planchets and sold for $3.00 each. Proof versions were of 40% silver clad planchets and sold at $10.00 each. This is not to say that a copper-nickel proof hadn't been "planned" all along because in 1999 (shortly after the release of the James Wiles book) a different reverse type was reported for the 1971-D coins!

It is an established fact that the San Francisco Mint (a proof coin only production facility in 1971) would ship defective planchets and dies to the Denver facility for circulating coinage production. (Substantiated by the existance of 1969-D, 1970-D, 1971-D and 1972-D Type B Reverse quarters) At some point during 1971, the Denver Facility began using dies with Reverse Type 6. (See photos above) These are commonly known as RDV-006 receiving that number designation in 1999 when they were "discovered". (Imagine that. A new die vairety after only having been available for 28 years! That alone speaks volumes on exactly where the Eisenhower Dollar stood in the coin collecting food chain!)

​

​

Speculation is that this reverse type was intended for 1971 and 1972 Cn Proof coins but since the program was never put in place, these extra dies were shipped to the Denver facility as rejects. Additional evidence exists in the form of 1971-D IKEs which were minted on "proof planchets" (again San Francisco rejects). Proof planchets are not annealed and polished in the same manner as ciurculating coinage planchets. The end result is a lack of annealing marks (chicken scratches) near the outer edges of the coins. Due to light striking pressures, Cn IKE Dollars are plagued with annealing marks which some folks confuse as "bag marks". Bag mark hits would show evidence of reeding whereas annealing marks do not.
End of Deviation
​

Back to the subject.

1973 rolls along and the market happens to have a glut of unused Eisenhower Dollars sitting in bank and federal reserve storage vaults. 284,824,935 had been produced yet NOBODY was using the coins in general circulation. Only collectors had ANY interest at all once it was discovered by the general population that these coins were NOT really SILVER Dollars! Back in the early 70's, it was no dofferent than it is today in that if a paper dollar is available, folks are going to use that over a one dollar coin. The ONLY real market were the one dollar slot machines in casino's but they were already glutted with their own one dollar tokens.

So, it was decided that 1973 would not get any circulating Eisenhower Dollars produced. Instead, the US Mint would include these copper-nickel coins in the US Mint Proof AND Uncirculated coin sets. This decision alone immediately placed a coin collectors bounty of the 1973 Proof and Mint Sets. Overall acceptance of the Eisenhower Dollar had been waning which was reflected in the total number of 40% Silver Uncirculated and proof coins produced (remembering that production of special coins in the 70's was "order" driven and not mandated) in 1973. Less than 900,000 Silver Business Strikes and just a smidge over a million proofs were produced! Less than half of the 1972 production and way less than the 1971 production!
1973 Silver Proof coins were regularly being sold by dealers at $100 each!
Since copper-nickel coins were ONLY available in US Mint Uncirculated coins sets, the price of those sets also began to rise dramatically as well. Final production figures showed that 2,000,056 Philly coins were produced and 2,000,000 Denver coins were produced. However, in a letter to Herb Hicks (proofartoncircs) from Roy Cahoon, Roy states that 400,000 1973 non-Silver dollar coins were melted.
The net result of these figures is the the 1973 and 1973-D Cn IKEs can and often do command some premiums.

On to 1974. Given the unavailability and low production runs of 1973 IKE dollars, interest was "renewed" in the Eisenhower Dolar coins. (Nothing new here from the collector/dealer side as each new Mint release has a certain level of "hype" associated with it. As soon as something is declared difficult to get, prices and interest go up.) Coins were slated for production to banks in addition to being included in Uncirculated sets and US Mint Proof sets. Additionally, legoislation was introduced to come up with special BiCentennial Coin designs to be implemented in 1975 and 1976! Things were looking just peachy!

The introduction of the BiCentennial designs were met with some indecisions in that it was felt that the initial design lettering on the Reverse would not wear well in circulation. The lettering was quite wide and flat on the Type 1. Eventually, it was decided to create a design that had narrower lettering which was much higher in relief. (Type 2)

​

Other changes were implemented as well such as the "alignment" of E PLURIBUS UNUM.

​

Generally speaking, Reverse Design Type 1 coins were available in all 1975 dated mints sets while Reverse Design Type 2 were available in 1976 Dated Mint Sets. The US Government went all out on the production of the BiCentennial Coins both in circulation quantities and in collectors version. Some collectors version were still available directly from the US Mint in the 90's.

1977 and 1978 were pretty much dull years for Eisenhowers. No special collectors coins. No speacil 40% silver coins. Nothing. The only real excitement for the coins was the discovery of a scant few 1977-D coins which had been minted on 40% Silver planchets left over from the BiCentennial collectors sets.

So in summary, the short 8 year run of Eisenhower dollars produced 36 different Types of coins:

Date Reverse Type

1971 Type 1

1971-D Type 1

1971-D RDV-006 Type 6

1971-S Silver Business Strike Type 1

1971-S Silver Proof Type 2

1972 Type 1 Type 1

1972 Type 2 Type 2

1972 Type 3 Type 3

1972-D Type 1

1972-S Silver Business Strike Type 2

1972-S Silver Proof Type 2

1973 Type 3

1973-D Type 3

1973-S Silver Business Strike Type 3

1973-S Silver Proof Type 3

1973-S Cn Proof Type 3

1974 Type 3

1974-D Type 3

1974-S Silver Business Strike Type 3

1974-S Silver Proof Type 3

1974-S Cn Proof Type 3

1976 Type 1 Type 4

1976 Type 2 Type 5

1976-D Type 1 Type 4

1976-D TYPE 2 Type 5

1976 TYPE 1 Cn Proof Type 4

1976 TYPE 2 Cn Proof Type 5

1976-S Silver Business Strike Type 4

1976-S Silver Proof Type 4

1977 Type 3

1977-D Type 3

1977-S Cn Proof Type 3

1978 Type 3

1978-D Type 3

1978-S Cn Proof Type 3



Rare examples which deviate from the above have also been found such as:

• The 1974-D coins struck on 40% Silver Planchets (Approx 15(?) known)
• The 1977-D coins struck on 40% Silver Planchets (Approx 5(?) known)
• The 1971-S 40% Silver Proofs with Type 1 Reverses (2 known)
• The 1971-S Prototype Proof Coins (2 known. Both with RDV-007 but different ODVs)
• The 1976 No S Silver Proof Coins (1 known)

By now, you should REALLY be confused! :devil:

Whatever! As I stated, folks eventually figure it out with the entire point being, the more that folks look at these coins "objectively" and with just a little understanding, the more there is to discover about them!

 

Thanks for the breakdown. It actually isn't as confusing as it may seem. I am glad you took the time to explain that because there are quite a few Ike's in this collection so I'll be going thru the whole lot of them once the microscope gets here, there are also a bunch of other coins that I haven't even gone thru yet so I'll be putting those under the scope as well.

Again, thank you so much for posting all of that information, I would have been totally lost without it, and I am glad that I have a place to come to with questions about all of this stuff!

 

Great Piece Lee! That is one heck of a lot of reverses for one decade.

Another favorite of mine are the 1964-1968 quarters which gave us 8 reverses and more since then.

 

I find the quarter reverses JUST as interesting Herb. Most intriguing is that I understand the "how" and "why" San Francisco would ship rejects to Denver but for the life of me, cannot figure out WHY Philadelphia whould all of a sudden start re-using rejected proof reverse dies on the production floor in 1956? Maybe a cost savings initiative but then, knowing full well that the proof reverse was different than the circulating design, I would think they would have stayed away from doing just that very thing as it created a different variety. The US Mint was aware of coin collectors and their penchant for detailed analysis of current coinage and in most cases avoided the creation or varieties which could become rarities.