Unscrupulous dealers

So Yesterday I was at a coin show, and I was looking at a dealer's inventory, and I noticed that he had a ms-67 graded morgan, by SGS. I asked him what he thought of SGS standards, and he said he thought they were good. Fair enough I suppose, maybe he had only one coin, and maybe it was the only coin that SGS had ever accurately graded. I asked to look at it, since it had nice toning, and he said the fields were flawless. Without a loupe, I could recognize tons of scratches. I said ehhhhh when he said the were flawless, and his response to that was saying "flawless" once again. How can anyone say that to your face, when you have the coin in hand.

Then, a elderly woman walked up to a dealer and pulled out 4 peace dollars, including an uncirculated 1921, and he offered her 28 dollars for the 4 of them. I immediately offered her 250 dollars for the 4 of them, and after she walked off, had 2 different dealers tell me they wouldn't sell to me. So, I left the show, after voicing a complaint to the show promoter, who was quite friendly. I don't see how what I did was remotely wrong, seeing that she was clearly getting ripped off. I found out on my way out that she had sold her coins for 380 dollars to another dealer, and the woman thanked me. I think I did the right thing.

 

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Good for you. Many dealers are very honest. The problem is the ones who are not. They make everyone look bad.

 

Yes, good for you. I'd have done the same thing!

B

 

I have met both good & bad dealers at coin shows. What really upset me is when a unscrupulous dealer try to rip off a kid or someone new to collecting. Instead of sharing their knowledge they use their knowledge to rip the unknowing off. I have even heard them bragging about it later to others.

I would had done the same as you.

 

Crooks. Wow... what do you think that guy would have marked that 1921 up to?

 

Zaneman,

You're a class act and a credit to the hobby.

But when someone says "unscrupulous" and "dealer" aren't they just repeating themselves?

 

These guys are bad for everyone.

 

The only thing that you did "wrong" (and note...I used ""...because I don't think it was wrong) was that you offered a higher offer to a person who was in the middle of a trade with a dealer...BIG no no....in a show...you don't but in to a deal.
That will turn off more dealers...I however I would have looked right at the dealer and said something like...how can you offer that for a coin that you know is worth much more...and then just walked away....more than likely she would have asked a few questions
But this time I think you did right.

Speedy

 

Speedy, It's a tough call. How much etiquette is owed to a burglar at work?

 

Depends on if you're in the same line of work. Although we all seem to agree that zaneman did the right thing, it would have probably marked the end of his show career if he were a dealer.

 

You did the right thing

De Orc

 

The dealer could have been more discreet too and offered her a value more in line with the "true" value of the coins. Then again, if he did that he wouldn't be cheating her.

You definitely did the right thing. And the right thing is never easy to do.

 

I had a similar experience a couple years ago...

Let me set the stage. I was in the middle of my travels and I happened to stop into one of the local coin shops. Some people take a lunch, I like to browse around and see if any coins suit my fancy.

The shop was actually busy. Discussions about the increasing cost for 2004 silver proof sets seem to dominate this particular shop. An old man was looking at coins in the back, putting them in 2x2's, "grading" them while the other owner was helping a couple of other browsers like myself.

As I was looking, a young kid (early 20's) comes in and looked lost. He was looking for a plastic holder for Morgan dollars. Since both owners were tied up, he asked, "Do you know anything about Morgans?" I replied, "A little...but if you really want to learn about Morgans, you should really get that book (pointing to the Whitman Official Red Book of Morgan Silver Dollars by Q. David Bowers) and that will pretty much cover the bases."

He then asked (holding up a capital plastic 2x2 holder) is this a good holder for a Morgan? I told him, "Sure, why not...do you collect Morgans?" He told me not really, but his grandfather that recently passed on willed him about 50 Morgans with one that he was told to be very special. It was kept separately from the others and saved in a "cotton bed" within a jewelry box.

"Do you know which date?", I asked. "It's a 1893 with a S on the back", he replied as he took it out.

"A 1893-S!!", as my voice rose. "Take a look at this Red Book, or better yet, this magazine (Coin Prices) and see what you have!" His eyes lit up and explained, "Look, I like to collect baseball cards and I really don't know anything about coins...but, this is fantastic!"

He also told me that a coin dealer at the flea market offered him $1500 for it, but his mother told him to sleep on it. I told him that he needed to read up on it. It looked to be at least a EF40 coin! My eyes bulged and now the patrons of the coin shop started wondering what was the comotion about. Imagine that? Me and my mouth!

Now opinions were being thrown at the kid like EF45, EF40, maybe AU, could be a fake (from the old guy), and I piped in telling him that if it were me, I would get that off to either NGC (since we were in Florida) or PCGS to certify it. I told him that this is a popular coin for fakes and if this passes NGC or PCGS, it is worth way more than $1500!

"Like certifying baseball cards?", he asked. "Exactly!" I replied. Well the owners were NOT to happy with my comments as this kid was probably looking to sell it. Instead, he ends up buying about $40 in books, magazines and coin holders.

Oh well...should of stayed quiet, but you never know what may walk through a coin dealer's door. He did ask me first since he wasn't getting any attention. Oh well...

************************************************
As I look back on this story, I probably should have minded my own business. After all, coin dealers are in the business of making a profit. That means, buy low and sell high for if they don't, they probably will have to close the shop. Who knows what the dealer "may" have offered this kid? Would he have "ripped" him off or offered him a "fair" price??...whatever THAT is!!

I also have witnessed "old ladies" in Florida (lots of them here) walk into variious coin shops, struggling to carry a box of their late husband's coin collection for the coin shop owner to review. Same conversation all of the time...

"Here are the coins I spoke to you about...are they worth anything?"

Owner..."Well, let's take a look"

10 minutes go by and you hear the opening and closing of whitman folders, slabs being pulled from their boxes, and even a "jingle jangle" every now and then. Then comes the sounds of the adding machine and less than 10 minutes later, a person's life collection is summed up by hearing, "There's really not much here other than face value, I give you $250 for the box, as it is..."

Now...there is a gulp growing in my throat, but it is NOT my business to scream, "You are getting ripped!" Even though I thought it was NOT a good deal for the old lady, she seemd to walk out happy with cash in hand!?!

Moral of the story...write down instructions what YOU would do if you found the collection. My instructions explain what a "slab" is, who are decent dealers I have dealt with, what a bid/sell price is, where to check for pricing as a guide, etc.

I just don't need to spin in my grave, if you know what I mean!

 

I think you did the right thing. You actualy stopped a crime. I too have seen to many situations like that. Overheard a guy selling a couple of rolls of Buffalo Nickels to a dealer for double face value. Just heard the end of the transaction or I would have done what you did. Another time at a gun store I just caught a guy selling a Mauser Broomhandle for $80 and actually butted in and said I'd give you $200 for that. He changed his mind about selling the gun. The guy at the counter told me to leave.

 

I disagree...that is no more of a crime than it is for SGS to slab coins PF or MS70....its not right but there isn't any law that says that when a coin dealer is asked what he will give for a coin he can't offer a low offer.
maybe the coin is only worth that much too him becuase he has a hard time selling Buff Nickels or the like....maybe his buyers only want high grade Buff and not that kind of low grade.

Speedy

 

Speedy, you're not really defending this scum are you?

I know that dealers have to make a living, but offering 1/10th of something's value is unscrupulous.

 

No....I'm not defending...but I think before we can call he names we would need to know more of the story.....I've done trades before...maybe take a roll of nickels for $4 with a $10 Comm.....
The dealer might have seen something that was wrong with the coin....maybe it was cleaned and had a large rim nick...I just don't think we can call a dealer a cheat when many of us haven't walked a mile in a dealers shoes.

Speedy