PCGS favors "big name" dealers?

Well, if TPGers are "supplementing" ANA standards, please read the ANA definition of Mint State and reconcile that with TPG admission that circulated coins freely get slabbed as MS 61-63 nowadays. Seems to me that TPGers are making up their own definition of mint state, along with other changes to standards. They say they guarantee a grade, but if they themselves are making up the definition what guarantee is that?

I do say that slabbing to prove a coin is not a forgery is a benefit, especially in some areas of ancients. That is not what TPGing is doing in the ancient field, though. They are imposing their own grading standards, based on US standards, on a field that has its own standards and has been using them before colonists were shooting turkeys here. That offends me, and any MS61 or AU ancient coin I can buy just to bandsaw away that slab I consider a victory. Ancients are not fragile little modern coins, they do not have a delicate patina that needs protecting by encapsulation, or a MS 70 designation that would be ruined by a fingerprint.

I started in US coins, still have a sizable collection in the bank. I know a lot about US coins, as hopefully I have demonstrated on this board. I started before PCGS was around, saw them come in, look promising, grow, and then break every promise they made to the industry, (never slab moderns, never grade a 70, never give MS to a circulate coin, never change grading standards, etc). That is my perspective.

 

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Well that depends. If you are selling to an experienced collector that's true, they will judge based on the coin not the slab. But selling to a dealer or someone else interested in resale they will be interested in the slab because the slab
makes the coin an easier sale to someone who isn't experienced and who will just go by whatever the label says.

But you rarely hear them point out the "gift grades" they get. "Boy look at this one! A 63 all day long and they called it a 65! I'm going to make out like a bandit when I move that sucker."

They get enough monster boxes they probably wouldn't know who submitted those, but when a major collection is announced coming up for auction and then a bunch of coins that obviously came from that collection come through I'm sure they know who submitted them. Do they give them special favors? I don't have enough evidence one way or the other, but I would not be surprised if it happens in some cases.

And where will many of thesenewbies or people who are too lazy to learn how to grade be buying.....ebay, Where they will get the low end dumped coins that they think are accurately graded.

In some cases they might know.

Of course just because they make that complaint doesn't mean the coins actually were undergraded. Let's see the coins and see if their complaints have any merit.

As I said earlier, you don't hear about the favors, you hear about the complaints.

How about refrain from spending large amounts of money until they DO know what they are doing. Start small and as they learn more they can increase the amounts they spend.

You left out never put a problem coin in a PCGS slab, never slab a dipped coin (yes back at the beginning they did include dipped as part of "cleaned coins")

 

I have one question for you...

Would you buy a raw 1916-D Winged Liberty dime off of e-Bay or Craig's List?

 

Probably not because I would want to see it first. If I am buying an expensive coin I prefer to see it first. From an established dealer that I know and with a return priviledge, yes I would buy one raw off of ebay. And I wouldn't buy a slbbed one off of craigslist.

 

Hmm. When you buy a precious metal coin, do you do your own assaying? If so, do you prepare your own reagents? If not, do you at least weigh and measure each coin? Did you build your own scale, calibrate it yourself, and check your calipers against a known standard? If so, who prepared that standard?

Yes, this is all different from grading. But, as markets and technologies evolve, our expectations of self-sufficiency had better evolve, too, in grading as well as other "determinations of value".

 

bbb

 

I am not sure when the next ANA grading or authenticity seminar is, but for those who dislike TPG so much, why not put the money up to attend those? In today's culture, so many want their rewards NOW! I hope they also go to club meetings and pay attention and ask why certain grades are given. I guess many hope that someday they will have a game slot in their forehead and can plug in a "GDJMSP's Grading and Authenticity Module" to shop on ebay or at a show. Knowledge usually comes slowly and/or expensive, and emotions over coins or TPG will not improve one's knowledge or ability of grading. I use TPGs on some coins, but I test myself on each submission by photographing them and grading them myself for later comparison.

I really don't understand why there is so much emotion on the subject as everyone has the personal choice to use them or not, and there are many greater perceived injustices in the world. If you really have a problem with the way the company is run, buy a few shares and make yourself heard at the annual meetings. IMO.

Jim

 

A Great Factual Statement

AMEN!! Thanks for the constructive post, which instills a bit of sanity in this field of collection where hypocrisy thrives, and dealers use artificial "standards" and self generated price lists to justify their actions. :thumb:

 

Interesting and provocative thread!

Just an observation..... both the OP and the member who revived this thread (and started a similar one) appear to be hit & run posters. Neither has participated in the discussion.

just sayin'...

 

shhhhhhhhhh BE QUIET!

 

Fairtrader has left the building.

 

Maybe he is having this same discussion on another board and is looking for arguments to post there.

 

Nope, that's not it!

 

Obviously my facetious comment wasn't plain enough. Old people have to do better explaining themselves.

 

Just use a "smilie" next time. That reminds me, can we get a "this thread is 5 years old" emoticon on the menu.

 

Certainly!