Just remember...if you plan to buy these coins "sight-unseen", which eBay is all about, the risk is all on YOU!! Apart from the top four TPG's (third party grading) of PCGS, NGC, ANACS and ICG. Okay, I may add PCI and SEGS to the mix, just deduct 2 to 5 points for MS/PR grades and 5 to 20 points for circulated grades...all things being equal... The rest of these "grading" companies are, in my opinion, nothing more than packaging and fluff to make the coin appear to be more valuable than it is. For instance, take a bottle of beer and throw a gold foil on the top and make a statement that your master brewer produced the brew. After you taste it and choke, you realize that you made a mistake. But wait a minute...it has a gold foil on the bottle just like SGS markets with their gold "security" tape!! It has to be worth something...doesn't it?? The alphabet of slabs that are profiting on eBay are just that...marketing, packaging and fluff. Sure there maybe a legit compnay trying to break into the TPG market (good luck), but when you see seller after seller pushing their own "graded" coins by marketing them as "independently" graded...well, if you want to throw away your money...go for it. This "hope" that coins graded by SGS or other alphabet grading companies are maybe a 65 or 66 if they grade it a 70 is just that...hope and wishful thinking!
I am not really hoping or wishing this coin will be a MS65 or 66 in a piece of plastic labelled MS70. This is just a cureosity how bad of a rip off SGS is. I have bought I think AGC graded nickels in the past and was quite happy with what I got and even agreed with the assigned grade. That being said I have not looked for AGC coins nor do I plan on buying SGS. I was willing to give someone other than aboncom or (abonCON) a few dollars to satisfy my cureosity and no matter what I get I will not feel slighted because I know what I buying. If by chance and only by chance I get anything above a MS66 (some people do hit the lottery) I do not plan on buying an SGS coin again. My first thought when I see any coin graded MS70 is, if it really merits this grade why didn't they use PCGS of NGC and get real $ for it? If its to good to be true it is!
If you are looking for gems (MS65+) in SGS slabs you will be sorely disappointed. I own a few (former) SGS coins and none of them grade more than MS63/4. My guess is that that is on the better end of what Aboncom calls "MS70". Now if you are looking for low grade Uncirculated moderns, then by all means, buy an SGS coin, but don't expect it to be nice and don't expect that just because Aboncom says that it has full steps that that info is accurate. He lies about the grades, why wouldn't he lie about whether or not it has full steps!
Well I recieved my 1981P MS70 SGS graded Jefferson nickel today. Now for the verdict.... MS63 maybe slide MS64 not even 5 full steps! WOW I'm supprised this guy isn't in jail for mail fraud for starters? I new it was going to be bad but I thought it would at least be a MS65. Oh well I had resigned to the fact when I bought for $2.95 (S&H included) that I was most likely paying $2.90 more than it was worth. Although I could use the holder to protect a real coin of value and that must be worth $.25 which would make my loss only $2.65 (although I would hate to peel off that beautiful gold tape). Does anyone know why ebay allows this to continue? Oh yah Midas incase you want to hear it "You were right".
Btw, anyone willing to take a challenge/risk. Buy an SGS slabbed coin, it doesn't matter which because all their coins are overgraded, submit it to PCGS, wait for the huge grade difference, but make sure to document everything. Then file suit against them and report them to the feds.
Report them for what ? They have not done anything illegal - unethical yes, illegal no. There have been suits for overgrading filed against grading companies in the past. Without exception they were all very long drawn out proceedures that cost both sides a great deal of money. Only a couple of them have been won or settled. Most are tossed out. The best thing you can do is learn as much as possible about grading for yourself. Then share information with others about the grading companies and what ones you can at least partly trust and what ones you can't.
Nuff said IMHO. Seriously though, anyone worth their salt would know to look at a seller's feedback before they made their purchase. Even if the proofs are actually PF64/65, it still would not be worth your time to pursue them. There are so many proofs that have been produced that in order to have anything remotely worth your time would be extremely high grade coins. With inflation and everything else, business strike coins will be virtually worthless besides face value. Going back to SGS, they are using the ANA grading system. The ANA may be the only ones that can actually do something about it. If SGS was barred from using the ANA grading standards than maybe you will have a victory.
A slight difference but an important one - they may SAY they are using ANA standards, but they are not.
I wrote to the seller who is fairly new to ebay and told him that I only bought this coin to see just how poorly SGS grades and that this was not an MS70 but MS63 maybe 64 and that I wasn't going to leave negative feedback because I basically knew I was going to get trash before I bid. Also told him that If he is honest he shouldn't sell SGS coins because he will become guilty by association. He does offer money back minus S&H but Would cost me about what I paid for it to send it back. He wrote back and claims not to know anything about coins and that he bought a lot of SGS coins (didn't say where) to sell on ebay and was now stuck and refunded me my purchase price -S&H without having to ship coin back. I don't know if he means he's stuck selling the rest of the SGS coins or just stuck with them? Most of the items he has sold are none coin related.
What is even worse than over grading Jefferson nickels is that he probably over grades Morgans and Double Eagles as well. This guy must pull down 10k+ per week. I just added up his top five auctions, its $5300+. I guess a lot of ebay buyers are getting fleeced on high end coins as well....
The guy uses his winnings to buy other coins so he can resell them. He most likely takes the best ones he finds and sells the rest back at MS70. Rinse & Repeat. If I had no ethics, I would do the same thing. Easy money!
SGS coins, avoid that stuff. It is Junk... and.. Abon.. avoid them at all cost as they sell the Junk. Hey... if there was an MS70 coin, do you think SGS would put it in a plastic snap together coin holder. I bought the same brand Collector Safe holder for less that .30 cents a piece. SGS knows the coin is NOT what they say it is. We do too. Unfortunatly, inexperienced individuals do not. Get the word out ... tell all ... help educate them.
Well, I just had to say that yes, their coins are extremely overgraded, but because everyone (except inexperienced collectors :headbang: ) is afraid to buy SGS slabs on eBay, it is occasionally possible to get good deals. My local dealer, who has an amazing eye for jeffersons, buys them sometimes for shipping plus 1 cent. I then buy them for $1.00 above what my dealer pays. I just got an MS 63-64 1938 D for $3.00. This is in no way a recommendation, just saying know about what you're buying before you buy it.
Last comment on disreputable coin dealers and grading services - SGS and Abon. I too bought a dozen or so coins. However had to send them back because they were not as depicted in the ebay photos posted. Looking at past and present items of the same date it was obvious they use stock photos. Then... when you win an item, they send a coin not even close to resembling the one in the ebay photo? Is that not FRAUD? I feel it may be a legal issue when a company selling on ebay uses a stock photos then delivers a different item. They will eventually slip up and get taken down. I would hope to see it sooner than later. EBay seems to protect them 'cause they generate a lot of money for eBay. So they are responsible too. Though they say they can not monitor every auction. Some may say it is a free country, and if I want to buy the Collector Safe .30 cent snaps SGS uses to slab Lincolns, open my own coin grading service, and grade everything as and MS 68-70. I can. True. and would be able to sell hundreds of coins to unsuspecting naïve collectors at $10-$30 dollars a piece. Coins that are valued at only a few cents apiece. That does not make it right. No one looks out for the inexperienced collector and they get taken. And another collector bites the dust. Hopefully, people will realize the truth about these two companies SGS and Abon. Maybe.. If we all tell a friend... and they tell a friend etc.... It may serve to protect the biz, and we can use Coin Talk to do just that.. discuss our passion for collecting. Instead of WARNING others of disreputable dealers / grading services like Abon and SGS.
Not that I would advise this nor would I admit nor deny that I may have participated in such an activity... Take a look at some of the eBay bidders that have recently bought SGS coins and kindly send them a email link to these forums so they can get educated... Pass the word. Education from these forums WORK!!
Emailing the bu Great Idea.. Midas.. I will indeed take a look at some of the eBay bidders recently buying SGS coins and kindly send them a email link to these forums so they can get educated... Thanks
I would advise against that. It is strictly against eBay policy to contact another bidder about an auction. If you do, you will get your membership yanked.
PCGS Slips To #2? I notice ICG slipped ahead of PCGS on this current Gray Sheet chart to be the most dependable. PCGS: 83.02% NGC: 79.46% ANACS: 55.70% ICG: 83.28% PCI: 51.07% SEGS: 50.36% NCI: 40.30% INS: 28.47% Maybe some of the myth has been exposed. John
