Do you think this would be a good or bad thing if this process is used to make the silver coins of the future Major Breakthrough for Silver Industry - World’s First Non-Tarnishing Sterling Silver British experts have pioneered the world’s first non-tarnishing sterling silver in a breakthrough that could revolutionise the silver industry. Researchers in Sheffield, the city famous for stainless steel, have developed a ‘stainless silver’ alloy that resists the discolouring effect of pollutants and retains its bright finish. The groundbreaking alloy, developed by researchers from Sheffield Hallam University’s Materials and Engineering Research Institute (MERI) and leading UK silverware brand Carrs of Sheffield, could boost the global market for silver, often dismissed as the ‘poor man’s gold.’ The new product outshines standard sterling silver by keeping its shine and colour intact, putting an end to regular polishing and high care costs. Marketed as Carrs Lustre Silver, makers hope it will change the public’s perception of traditionally high-maintenance silverware. Dr Hywel Jones from MERI said: “The biggest problem with silver as a precious metal is that it tarnishes with time. The yellowing or blackening of the metal means that traditional silver items like cutlery are increasingly unattractive for the modern market, because they need a lot of upkeep.” “The new alloy has exceeded all our expectations and is a development of great significance. Silver has been used by man for 5000 years and this is one of the most important developments in that time. "It has potential to be exploited in areas other than silverware, for example in electrical connectors, a huge market in today's world of computers and electronic control systems" Independent tests at the Sheffield Assay Office and the Cutlery and Allied Trades Research Association (CATRA) have proven its resistance to tarnishing, which occurs when silver reacts with sulphur containing substances in the air, forming a silver sulphide film that blackens the surface of the metal. Dr Jones said: “Previous attempts to produce a ‘stainless’ silver by adding germanium for example have resulted in alloys that were difficult to manufacture. Not only does our alloy resist tarnishing, but it can be cast, rolled, worked by silversmiths, soldered, heat-treated and polished without any of the problems that can arise when you change the chemistry and mechanical properties of an existing alloy. It’s also resistant to fire-staining, which makes the production process more efficient. “The ‘stainless’ silver finished product requires no polish; just a simple wipe with a cloth restores its original finish, meaning that it’s as good as gold in terms of being tarnish-proof.” Carrs Silver founder Ron Carr added: “We recognised the need for a new sterling silver for a new generation, because customers want products that stay looking beautiful with the minimum of effort.” Lustre Silver has been developed over four years as part of a €2.2m European-funded research project. Manufactured exclusively by Carrs of Sheffield, it will be officially launched at the Spring Fair, Birmingham NEC (5-9 February, 2006), along with a new Lustre range that includes iPod nano holders, business card holders, passport covers and cutlery.
Very interesting. Great news for people who like brilliant white coins but who live in humid climates. Not so great for fans of toning though
Based on the story it's obvious they did not do all this research for the product to be used in the manufacture of coins. And from the sound of things - it's not really what they advertise it to be. If it was tarnish free - why would it need to be wiped off with a cloth ? What else would they be wiping off except tarnish ?
I think the answer to this is that it is to get the food off, since they are talking about tableware. I remember my Dad getting out the silver polish to work on some silver spoons that he'd picked up at garage sales, this is meant to make the polish/tarnish removing chemicals obsolete. I agree, this wasn't invented for use in coins, but it is interesting, none-the-less.
I wonder if it is like so-called "German Silver"? On the basis of tradition and art, I don't think much of the new alloy. If that sort of thing is wanted, ojne could always use chrome-plated artifacts. Second thought, I suppose that artisan workability is the real issue.
I bought some coins from a guy who said he was a former manager at the mint. He informed me about some of the reasons why the .999 silver coins tarnish. He says the mint has been working for many years trying to bring the coins up to 100% silver but they have been unsuccessful. It is that .001 of copper or whatever item, other than silver, is in blanks that makes it react or tarnish.
Not sure what 'non starter' is but I doubt that this process can be used for US silver bullion coins. Both the proof and uncirculated silver eagles are .999 fine silver. The addition of an alloy would make them less than .999. The US Mint would no longer be able to guarantee that they are .999 fine silver. The fact that the US Treasury guarantees them to be .999 is one of their big selling points. The US commenmorative coins are a differnt story though since they are made up of only 90% silver.
I'd sure like to see some scientific support for that claim. I don't really believe that copper is necessary as a catalyst for the chemical reaction between silver and sulpher to result in visible tarnish.
You're probably right. I had a doucument somewhere that discussed the chemical reaction that makes silver tarnish and it mostly discussed the amount of sulpher in the air or the amount that the silver gets exposed to. I don't think that the manager at the mint was actually saying that if were 100% silver that it would never tarnish no matter what you exposed it to. I gathered that it would futher slow the process if all impurities were eliminated keeping the coins in MS or PF condition longer if they were kept unexposed, sealed against sulpher.
Here is a copy of the email I received from the former mint manager. What do you think? The toning is a normal thing as is spotting. We have gone to the 99.9% silver trying to help but it is something that we have fought over the entire time we have produced the American Silver Eagles. We have metallurgists that work directly with our suppliers and the only reason that they come up with is the impurities that are in the metal and they have and are still trying to purify it to 100% but they have trouble getting this done. The grading companies do not hold toning and spotting as a downgrade on their grade. Also MS does in fact mean mint state. The standard American Silver Eagle is a production coin in which they are stamped in an automatic press instead of a manual single stamp press. They are not handled like a numismatic coin. They are packaged in plastic rolls and are only sold in large cases to which they call green monsters. These coins are only sold to licensed dealers as it would be too much for the mint to sell to individuals. They in turn sell to the private dealers and buyers. You yourself can buy them off ebay or a dealer by the roll. They run somewhere in the $400. to $450 range usually. This is for a 20 coin roll. You are correct about the light or deep strike. If they are a good deep stamp they are graded as Dcam or Ultra cam. This is meant as Seep Cameo or Ultra Cameo. This is in fact the part that is considered detail. If it has a very deep strong strike it will have one of these Cameo grades on the slab. But it is a standard detail it will not. I have some problems with the inconsistencies of the third party grading companies. I do understand their problems as their inspectors are inspecting these coins over an 8 hour shift. But I still feel they should and could be more consistent for the money they charge for grading. On average it is in the $12.00 range fpr each coin. So in other words with a coin as you bought it fist cost's about $22.00 for the coin and then $12.00 for the grading plus shipping. So it all comes down to in many cases making a small profit and I find that the MS standard coins are not the best was to go in my opinion unless you are collecting the entire set and keeping it up and keeping it for many years. Now with the coin you are bidding on right now... As far as I am concerned the Numismatic coins are the best and always will be the best investment coinage there is period. You will in fact really notice the difference in them as they are handled only with cotton lint free gloves and never touch each other or anything but the capsule they are put in when they are stamped. They are also double stamped. This makes for the best detail and you will see this. It is like night and day between them and the standard production Eagles. As for the way these slabs are sealed. I feels that the best job done is by MGC. Then ICG and PCGS.I would never buy a coin that is graded by ANACS as their slabs are not very air tight and their labels bleed and the coins look like they are toned real bad very quickly. As for the SGS I myself think they are glued slabs. As I feel PCGS is. I got a a PCGS back from them that the reverse you could barely see the coin at all. It looked like glue was smeared all over the slab. I sent it back and they did re slab it but again I still had to pay shipping to get it there. I think most are sealed fairly good. But as for toning and spotting I think much is a chemical impurity problem. One that has baffled us for all those years. I also have some problems with the way some of the slabs seem mishandled in the process of the grading. Or it might be possible their suppliers do not handle them very good. Scratches are something I feel they could improve on very much. But again I guess it is all about money. They get them and they don't want to loose money if they have scratches and so they just go about their grading and leave it to us to live with the problems. I have had this will all the grading companies. I think only NGC, PCGS and ICG claim these to be sonically sealed. But even this will not protect from toning or spotting. We have even tested and feel that the plastic that they use in many cases help cause the problem as the chemical composition of the plastic combined with the impurities may be a reason as well. I also feel that regardless of the grading company that none are always sealed 100%. PCGS and ANACS uses a rubber donut around the coin in their slabs. Again something we feel is a contributor to the chemical reaction that may cause the toning and spotting. I had over 300 20th Anniversary sets and I had them graded mostly by PCGS and NGC. For some reason it seems like PCGS had more problems with spotting than NGC. I feel it did in fact have to do with this rubber donut that is put around the coin. But it is something we have a hard time proving the problem because some actually get some toning right in the plastic capsule we package them in. So ???? The jury is still out on this and we are still doing everything we can to find a way to make this problem taken care of. If you win the other coin I will make sure it is very clean. You will really be able to tell the difference in the Numismatic and the Standard Eagles. But then that's why they cost so much. It takes about me about a 30% return from my grading to make a reasonable profit of a hundred coins graded. In other words when I send in 100 I need 30 to come back graded 70 to make what is necessary for me to actually continue selling. With the situation of my being able to get the first strike coins on these numismatic coins it does help in getting even a higher percentage or 70 graded out of a hundred. I get in the 45 to 50 percent on my grades. But then I am their to inspect the first 12 coins from a new set of dies. I inspect and the ones I select are packaged for my purchases. So now you can see why I feel all grading companies are inconsistent in their grading. I feel my eye is superior to any of theirs. But then I am not a licensed grader.. I spent 28 years with the Mint and I do feel that I have the highest quality coins anywhere in regards to my numismatic coins. I do hope this has helped you. I feel when you get a MS70 Numismatic and A PF 70 numismatic coin you will see what I am talking about. I do have some 2008 MS70 NGC coins for auction right now as well. The prices I feel are very good for the grade and quality. They are not even half the trend or book values. They will in fact be the coins to compare and or collect. I would recommend them over the standard eagle. But then all eagles are a good investment in my opinion. The one thing about the numismatic coins from 2000 to the present that are stamped in West Point with the W mint mark is that they all are very low population coins. All in the 200,000 range. They are also the higher quality especially from 2006 to present. All are struck on burnished coin blanks. Please if you have any further questions feel free to email me. Thank you once again my friend.
The majority of patents issued for non-tarnishing silver ( mainly for medical uses) consist of 92% silver, 4% indium and 4% titanium ( or similar alloying) . It would be a small thing to make the silver content 92.5 or above to qualify for sterling for consumer silver. These patents go back almost 30 years, but there is a huge time difference from getting a patent and producing a commercial product. I don't think the refiners would care to deal with this silver. And the higher the silver level, the less tarnish resistance. The newest advances are in the area of silver-carbon fiber and silver ceramic composites., which also are non-tarnishing . Jim
I have heard many a bullion dealer tell me that .925 tarnishes faster I have heard many a bullion dealer tell me that .925 tarnishes faster than .900 silver - if it were to be tarnish free or tarnish less silver I would think it would be the alloy additives and not the higher silver content that would make it so?
I would accept if the chemical impurity was dealing with the chemicals that are used in various mint processes, but not that it is a impurity due to the difference bewteen 99.9% silver and "100%", as 100% will never be reached in the forseeable future, if ever. IMO. Jim
I don't know if this is true or not. I am not a bullion dealer just a new collector. However i collect both US Commemoratives (90% siver) and Proof Silver Eagles. I can say though that if I look at some of my US Commemoratives and my Proof Siver Eagles of the same year (the 1990's) the commemoratives have more toning and spots than the eagles. Whether that is from the way they were cared for and stored I cannot say as I am not the original owner. Also my 1980's commemoratives are showing more signs of toning (the beginning tarnish) than my 1980's eagles.
