I found myself perusing my coin collection this morning, and re-discovered that I have an 1877 cent. Usually a collector would never forget possessing such a coin, and would surely be one of the collection's flagships. Not this one. I acquired this key last year for what I thought was (and still think is) a bargain: $150. All of the lettering, as well as the date, are legible, but some mild pitting and rust-like corrosion make it quite the fright-pig. Though completely lacking any aesthetic appeal, I still have a fondness for it, hard to explain, perhaps it could be summed up as "it's so ugly that it's beautiful". (I'll try to post pics of it soon, as well as some other gnarly fillers I have). This had me wondering...... Is there any other reasons for collectors to purchase fillers other than to "obtain a tough date on a budget"? Are they sensible investments, like the choice grade coins? It is a no-brainer that all coins increase in value over the years (and VERY seldom depreciate, with the exception of gold coins, which are bound to fluctuations in gold trends). Even the fillers ride the wave of appreciation: the comparison of values circa 1995 against today's values speaks for itself, and I can back this up with my vast collection of old coin magazines. However, it is very difficult to assign a value to a filler. First of all, most value guides don't document the grades under "GOOD-4". Second, there are many dealers and collectors that refuse to even associate themselves with fillers, especially if they have been cleaned/holed/plugged/ex-jewelry/whizzed/plated/dipped etc........ A dealer once offered me only $50 for my 1877 Indian cent, claiming that he is normally un-interested in fillers. I declined. He may be able to purchase the coin at such a price from some uninformed heir or heiress, but I have seen low-ball cents very similar to mine go for well over $300 on eBay. As far as gold fillers, I don't see much of a point. I just don't see the point in purchasing a dented and cleaned common date $20 St. Gaudens for $1450 when problem-free uncirculated pieces start at about $200 more (this is not relevant to me at the moment because double eagles are currently out of my league). The low price variance between fillers and gems in this case can be explained by the value of gold: the content alone in any double-eagle is worth a minimum of about $1300, so even a PO-1 example might sell for, say $1350. This would not be worth it in my eyes if a decent piece only costs 5-10% more. Then there are the super-keys: 1901-S 25C: This coin is completely out of my league. G-4 pieces trade at the same value as an all inclusive 6-day stay in Hawaii for 2 at an upper-scale hotel (about $5,000). VG-8 pieces hover around $10,000 and you surely couldn't get a piece in MS-60 for any less than $60,000. A recent specimen, only PO-1, sold for $1450!!! A FR-2 to AG-3 piece is usually offered around $3000. I realize that this is the key-to-end-all-keys as far as business-strike 20th century coins are concerned, but would you be willing to spend thousands on such a filler? I don't know if I would. In my opinion, the price result of a filler at auction requires the presence of at least a few desperate type-collectors. If the auction is only attended by dealers and speculators, the fillers will probably yield poopy results. For what reasons do you, or under which scenarios would you purchase fillers? Greg
I buy fillers mainly because some problem free versions are more then I want to spend on a single coin. I would have no trouble paying for a harshly cleaned draped bust half dollar & dollar. I dont even think about chain cents or flowing hair anything. Ive seen dented & holed ones for a few hundred and I dont even give them a second glance. Even ones that are so slick there is just a faint line of some design. In my eyes its a chunk of copper & nothing more. Im not a key date buyer & probably never will be so that isnt a issue, its more the financial stopper coins that become fillers.
Its really a combination of both price and what,s out there of course some things are allot Rarer then other,s so when something comes up that is very difficult to find i will usually buy It and hope for a upgrade later!
Well some of my fillers will not be replaced, but some will be upgraded and then the fillers sold. Budget and change in collecting goals are just some of the reasons.
And I take the opposite route. I want a coin that is "clean", i.e., will go into a graded slab from one of the reputable TPGs. I don't want to rebuy a coin. I'll live with a "hole" rather than buy a "filler". That isn't to say that I haven't upgraded. I have. But that was because when I originally bought it was the best I could afford. Much later when my money situation improved, I upgraded. But I never bought a "filler".
Here,s the problem at least in the Mpc world waiting for a super high grade note to appear which may Never come! Populations are so low you have to get what you can, buying a lower grade and then Selling it off once you have found something better is sound advice!
I'm the oddball in this one...for two reasons: 1) I treat my coin collection in much the same way that I treat my model airplanes...they are a PURCHASE, not an "investment". Both will retain some value over the years, many will, presuming proper care, even appreciate. Fine, so be it. That is not, however, the motivation behind their purchase. Their purchase has but one purpose, and one only : To bring me joy, amusement, and happiness. They are PURCHASES for me to enjoy. I am spending $x,xxx for the simple pleasure of owning and flying a fine machine, or owning and appreciating a fine coin. If my family gets some of that money back when I'm gone, great. 2) As a result of 1 above, I frequently PREFER worn, beat up, "fillers". For me, much of the joy of coins is the stories they could tell, if only they had the means. Indeed, just the other day, I added a prized piece to my collection that isn't even a coin! While cracking some proof sets for the Kennedy halves, one set from the 80's had the original packing slip form the mint to the original buyer! For me, that's worth more than ANY "rare coin"...it's the rarest of all possible artificats, it is UNIQUE! There is only one packing slip like it anywhere, and there will never be another. On top of that, it actually DOES give the coins in the set a means to tell at least PART of their story. I know, on a given date, they began their existence with a trip to a very specific individual at a very precise address, for an exact cost. How did they then make their way to me? How long did they remain in that person's possession? Were they displayed proudly, or stashed away in the (vain, as it happens) hope of gaining value? When and why were they given up on? I'll probably never know the answers to those...and frankly, couldn't care less. Knowing some of the story...and knowing you'll never know it all, but speculating about all the possibilities...that's the magic of this for me. So hey...I'll quite happily put that barely identifiable G4 piece in my collection. I'll have the same coin "you" do, I'll have spent less, and mine will provide ME with countless hours more wonderment and enjoyment.
I'm not suggesting that I wait for pristine examples. Couldn't afford them anyway. But I do TRY for a representative example and for me that means XF or better. The key word is "try". That of course is often wishful thinking. I have an 1893-S Morgan but it's not even close to XF. It's a G-6. And that's the best I'll ever own. And I'm quite satisfied with it.
It must be something really special for me to buy a problem coin but it was not always that way. At a young age, I just wanted to fill the hole. As I got older and started upgrading, I found how hard it was to sell off the problem coin. I could have saved a lot of money if I had waited for something better to come along. Just my opinion.
I am that young collector some of you have just described, only 22. The only fillers I purchase are the keys (common fillers are usually seen as fodder for the melter, and I subscribe to that), and I admit that I let my emotions get the best of me when I purchase some coins. I just want to have the privilege of saying that I "own the rare ones", and I overlook the fact that I will never be able to emulate the Elliasberg or Garrett collections with such coins. Most of my fillers aren't even gradable. I may be able to impress a few newbie collectors by telling them that I own a 1942/1 dime and a 1909-S VDB, but a meager oral description leaves ones imagination to be the soul judge of what the coin may actually look like. The pictures will tell them the real story, and my collection won't appear so impressive after all (in actually, the over-date dime is a decent VG-10, but I consider it a filler because 99% of them seem to be in the high grades. The VDB, on the other hand, looks like it has been hacked up by Leatherface, but hey, it was cheap! ) Other than the 1901-S quarter, there are more keys I won't be able to afford any time soon, even as fillers. A 1916 standing quarter is currently being offered on eBay: it has been cleaned, and the date is erased into oblivion. Only the die markers define its authenticity. The coin is currently being offered at $2500 or B/O. I don't think I could EVER spend that much on a dateless coin, even if it was authenticated. On the other hand, many of the very very rare 1802 half-dimes are poor-to-fair, and wealthy collectors appear ready to put down around $30,000 for such a coin. Go Figure Happy Thanksgiving! Greg B
Outrigger resort is the place to stay if you visit Oahu, not much nicer than that. As for the 1901-S quarter, I've seen PCGS graded ones in PO-1 go for over $1200. While Unc pieces sell for hundreds of thousands. Matte Proof Lincoln cents sell for a fortune, so I could only afford a Proof 63 while 64's and up sell for thousands. I like my 63 and very satisfied with it.
I don't mind fillers at all.....I'm not going to have the budget to buy the best, so these complete sets and to me, are very satisfying. Now, does anyone have a 1916D dime or a 14Dcent for cheap?
I don't have a problem buying fillers. Some times you need to grab what you can even though the coin can be worn, repaired, holed etc. There are a few filler coins that I have bought that's almost impossible to replace because the next better coin will be easily in terms of thosands of dollars. I guess the most important lesson is never to regret what you buy. Here's a couple of examples - if you are a Russian coin collector, you'll know how impossible it is to find filler coins like this for under 100 USD: Paul I - 1/4 ruble 1/2 ruble
The following is a very attractive filler: http://cgi.ebay.com/1872-CC-HALF-DO...63?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item4cf341a81f I know the description on the case probably wants to make most of you avoid it as if it were a leper, but I find it to be very beautiful with all the luster and detail. I think it's a very fair price too, as all silver CC mint coins from the early '70s are extremely rare. It is priced at the very end of my affordability spectrum, that is, It won't interfere with college loan payments and what-not, and could effortlessly be replenished after a few paychecks (after the necessities are paid). If somebody else buys it, that's o.k. (I'm not REALLY that serious about purchasing it), but I know this one would bring a lot of satisfaction, and minimal regret.
