I frequent two shops in the area. Both places know me. Both know and have mutual respect for each other. Their prices are comparable to each other. Here's the deal. This happens every time. I'll go to one dealer and buy what he grades as an MS coin. I'll go to the other shop and he'll grade it at least two grades lower than the other guy. This works both ways. Why is this? I don't tell the dealer where I got the coin. I don't tell them the grade I was told it was when I bought it. They know I'm not trying to sell it. I've been visiting both shops for over twenty years. I've had hundreds of coins appraised by them both. BTW, when I buy a coin elsewhere, they both grade it lower than what I assumed it was when I bought it. Never once have they graded it exactly or higher than what I was told it was when I bought it. How can anyone trust a dealer when there is so much of this going on? I have never paid more than a hundred dollars on a single coin. I would be scared to buy a mucho expensive coin, not trusting the dealer's grades. I'm tempted to crack open a graded coin and take it to both of them and ask their opinion.
Cracking open a couple of inexpensive coins might be a great way to test these guys To see who,s really giving you the best deal and the most trust worthy!
It doesn't matter what the dealers tell you about a coins grade, grading is subjective. All that matters is that you know how to grade the coin for yourself. Don't rely on what anyone else tells you, be that a fellow forum member, a dealer, or a TPG. Cracking a TPG slabbed coin out of its holder and playing games testing your local dealers isn't going to prove anything about them, their abilities nor teach you how to grade since you don't seem to able to do this without relying upon whats written on the slab label by a TPG. Everyone has their own subjective assessment in grading. Yes, a consensus can be agreed upon about coins grades, but if you don't know how to grade yourself and refuse to do so, you might as well continue on blindly accepting the advice of others. It's fine if you want to do that, taking others' word for something, but you are not going to make everyone else's assessments agree, and you will never understand the differences in their assessments since you can't grade to begin with.
Post a photo of the coin(s) & get a grade opinion of the photos here at CT I don’t know what is happening in your case but it is rather common for a dealer to over-grade something that he is selling. It is common to se an AU coin listed as UNC or an MS63 listed as MS65. The best thing we can all do is to learn to grade coins accurately for ourselves. I recommend the grading classes at the ANA summer seminar.
Maybe each time you bring a coin in they're thinking you are planning on selling it and giving you a lower grade to benefit them. Just a thought...
I understand we should all learn how to grade, but who am I supposed to learn this from? There are hundreds of other posts on this forum that say the only way to learn how to grade is to get an honest dealer to teach you the ropes. How can I learn like that when nobody can agree on a grade? Books can teach you so much, but you need an expert to point out things you're not used to looking at. I would love to grade accurately myself. Like I said I've known both dealers for well over twenty years. I think after that long I could an honest grade from these guys.
Could be that one has followed the easing of grade ( Au --> MS) over the years and the other has stuck with his original learning of grades.
Pilkenton: You should read everything you can. You should look at as many coins you can, in hand preferably. Not a few, but thousands. Look at coins you don't even have interest in but don't feel so overwhelmed that you must know every detail about every coin type out there. Yes, seek advice from other collectors, forums that discuss grading and dealers. Yes, learn how a TPG grades their coins. Ultimately, YOU must develop and hone your own grading skills. It takes time and it may be a life long pursuit. This is an aspect of the hobby, try to embrace it and gain grading confidence as you move forward in your collecting. :thumb:
Your little story is a case study in why the TPGs do such a booming business. If it's in a slab, with an assigned grade from a respected TPG, then a lot less "grade haggling" goes on. But it still happens, just look at many EBay ads that state "This coin is undergraded, in my opinion" It's human nature, in a free market, to try and get the best deal.
Of course, it is great to receive the advice & knowledge from a mentor. That is why I truly appreciate discussing & buying coins from reputable dealers. In grading class, a game is played where the grade on the slabbed coin is covered & everyone guesses the grade. You do this game hundreds of times in an ANA grading class. You can do the same exercise yourself every time you view a slabbed coin. look at the coin & assign a grade without focusing on the TPG grade. Then, look at the grade on the slab. If you look at thousands of slabbed coins this way, then you will learn to assign grades like the TPGs independently and without the aid & opinion of your two local dealers.
In industry it's called the NIH or Not Invented Here syndrome. In the coin business it's the Not Purchased Here syndrome. Coins that don't come from me don't grade as well. (And in EAC we joke that ownership adds five points.)
You know one way I tested this - I sent some coins in NGC and PCGS. My local dealer was a little conservative on a few coins - one was a complete miss on variety, but I take the blame myself. One online dealer hit every grade EXACTLY on the money for Morgans, and little conservative on a few others - one miss on a questionable color(I still think the coin was okay). My local dealer will work with me. The key is making sure to identify problem coins - which I think at times I am better at. The local guys are great - I get to hold and look at coins I can never afford, plus they are willing to work with me. No such thing as a junk bin and they don't mind being cherry picked.
It's not so useful for high grade stuff.... but PCGS photograde is a good place to start for circulated stuff. If any of my employees ever has a grade question on something I tell them to use this site. It's a good place to learn... but nothing beats having the coins in your hands. http://www.pcgs.com/photograde/
No point in breaking a slabbed coin out. Just cover up the top with some electric tape or something so they can't read the grade, then ask them for their opinions on grade and see what they say.
Easy answer to the question - why is this ? Because very few use the same grading standards. Ask these two dealers of yours what grading standards they use and see what they tell you. Then ask them 1 at a time, why they assigned a certain grade to a given coin that is in their inventory. Then pull a coin of the same type (and hopefully of the same grade as their coin is) out of your pocket and ask them to grade that coin. And if as you say they typically grade them 2 grades lower, then ask him to explain why he graded your coin as he did. Now this is kind of going to put that dealer on the spot because if his coin is say an MS64 Morgan, and your coin is an MS64 Morgan. He's going to have to have a pretty good reason for calling it an MS62. Especially when you can look at other coins in his inventory and in all likelihood find other coins just like yours that he has graded as MS64. Either way, it should be a telling and enlightening experience for you.
The grade depends on whether you are buying the coin or selling the coin. If you are buying it the grade may be MS-64. If you are selling the same coin may be AU-55.
I've dealt with both dealers for over twenty years. I tell both of them that the coin's not for sale. I just want an accurate grade. I think Conder101 hit the nail on the head. If I didn't buy it from them, they're not going to grade it as well.
They are probably not going to remember every coin they sold you. Take a coin back to the same dealer you bought it from years before and see if the grade sticks. Just a thought.
